ODI ATG XIs

[jimmy101]

at the way Razzaq runs away after blocking the 6th ball back to McGrath.

Glorious.

 

[Zinzan]

Ok , That's your opinion.

Many people rates Akram or Garner as the greatest.
Also McGrath benefitted from playing for an unbeatable team. ( McGrath and Gilchrist are the main reasons for that though.)

There is nothing wrong in selecting Garner , Akram , Hadlee , Kapil and Saqlain combo as it's basically between Garner and McGrath. Hadlee and Kapil allrounders , Akram half allrounder and left hand variety.

For me , The Locks are

Sachin

Viv
Kohli
Abdv
Dhoni
Kapil

Akram

Lara , Hadlee , Saqlain and Garner completes the 11

My AT XI locks would be

Sachin
AB
Viv
Kohli
Dhoni
Wasim
Garner
Murali

Outside these 7, there's a good argument for any of Hadlee, Pollock or McGrath as the 3rd or 4th seamers.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'd love to see an Australian ATG XI take on a Zinzan "no Australians" ATG XI

would be a really great (hypothetical) contest

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Only if one was short-sighted enough to factor when he was well past his peak, as opposed to how good he was for more than a decade between 04' & '15.

Guess it's the same argument for those who penalise Tendulkar & Ponting for playing Tests below their respective best in their twilight years.

Yes, Longevity deserves additional points not negative points.

For example ,
Sachin Tendulkar

He started as a teenager/ school boy , unusual for an international cricketer.
He lasted almost 25 years. Take his best 15 year stretch to rate him , because that's the normal expected lifetime for a world-class batsman. For a pace bowler it's 10 years .

That extra 10 year service earns additional points .( Or no points if he was that bad.)
Unless you are comparing him with another 25 year career. Minus point is Injustice in normal cases.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I'm sure the second XI would kick the **** out of the first XI

 

[Zinzan]

I'd love to see an Australian ATG XI take on a Zinzan "no Australians" ATG XI

would be a really great (hypothetical) contest

Not sure how given my 7 locks posted above are better than any Australian player ever.

Sachin
AB
Viv
Kohli
Dhoni
Wasim
Garner
Murali

That said, I have no issues with those who might decide to select a Symonds or McGrath in their XI, since it's a very close thing. I provided my reasons for not including Bevan or Gilchrist above. If it wasn't for Dhoni, Gilchrist would make my side. (I could cheat and have ABD as my keeper ).

 

[ankitj]

Interestingly Dhoni hasn't completed 15 years playing for India yet. So does he get some points docked for poor form in last 3 years?

 

[Zinzan]

I'm sure the second XI would kick the **** out of the first XI

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but if not, what XI exactly would kick the **** out of this side?

Jayasuriya 6
Tendulkar
Kohli
Viv
ABDV
Dhoni+
Flintoff 5
Wasim 1
Ambrose 2
Garner 3
Murali 4

 

[Zinzan]

Kallis is a popular choice in AT 11s.

In Reality , there were 2 better allrounders in his own team. Pollock and Klusner.

Kapil
Hadlee
Jayasoorya
Pollock
Klusner
Watson
Symonds
Imran
Botham
Flintoff

All better than Kallis

Agree, Kallis gets very overrated in ODI cricket, a bit like Marshall, Imran & Warne tend to.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Interestingly Dhoni hasn't completed 15 years playing for India yet. So does he get some points docked for poor form in last 3 years?

When compared to another career of comparable length, yes imo.

 

[srbhkshk]

The second XI would not be that competitive with the first XI - the bowling would, but Sachin / Viv / Kohli / ABD are a LOT better than any other ODI bats in consideration. I'd almost reckon the first XI would be fine even if you played only the four of them and filled the other batting slots with guys like Pollard / Symonds / Kapil / Buttler / Afridi.

 

[Zinzan]

An interesting hypothetical would be whether England's current ODI XI would beat the best of the rest all-time English players.

Roy
Bairstow
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler+
Ali
Woakes
Willey
Curran

vs.

Knight
Trescothic
Gower
Pietersen
Lamb
Stewart+
Botham
Flintoff
Gough
Swann
Willis

 

[mr_mister]

Only if one was short-sighted enough to factor when he was well past his peak, as opposed to how good he was for more than a decade between 04' & '15.

Guess it's the same argument for those who penalise Tendulkar & Ponting for playing Tests below their respective best in their twilight years.

This reads as if those who penalise Tendulkar and Ponting are some small minority. I'd say the majority of this site docks them points for their final few years, as they should.

If you're playing way too long past your peak and hurting your team totals while doing so, why shouldn't you go down a peg in this sort of exercise? Where is the line drawn? Do we also not count players stats before they hit their peak? Only their career from 25-35 should count?

 

[Zinzan]

^To be fair, the rest of the best bowling line-up does look much stronger, although I prefer the current sides top 6 batsmen.

 

[Zinzan]

This reads as if those who penalise Tendulkar and Ponting are some small minority. I'd say the majority of this site docks them points for their final few years, as they should.

If you're playing way too long past your peak and hurting your team totals while doing so, why shouldn't you go down a peg in this sort of exercise? Where is the line drawn? Do we also not count players stats before they hit their peak? Only their career from 25-35 should count?

I don't see it that way. If someone was at the very top of their sport/their position for a decade, it's short-sighted to penalise them for playing a few years beyond their best.

And if their playing on too long genuinely hurt their respective teams, then it's the selectors who should be blamed for that, not the player. All said, I'm not convinced any of those 3 have played on too long to be a detriment to their sides.

Some my argue Dhoni potentially keeping Pant out of theirs, but I'd take Dhoni's experience into this next WC every time.

That said, as OS said earlier, if all other things were equal between players (such as both played for 20 years), then you could factor that.

 

[MrPrez]

Agree, Kallis gets very overrated in ODI cricket, a bit like Marshall, Imran & Warne tend to.

I'm a massive fanboy, yet I agree.

As far as ODI cricket goes, I think Kallis could have been a lot better if he'd begun his career in the T20 era, or slightly earlier.

He had remarkable raw power and the ability to dominate the crease; unfortunately he also had the role of anchor.

If he'd developed in the same era as Amla, AB, Faf etc, he might have developed into a very different ODI player.

All speculation, of course.

 

[mr_mister]

I don't see Dhoni ever getting dropped, like the way it was with Sachin. Players who reach their status seem to have a bit of power over when and where their career ends.
I've also seen Dhoni halt a lot of potential 330+ totals when setting and bring back them down to 300 just due a lack of being able to hit out these days.

The world cup will be telling

 

[mr_mister]

Considering how Bevans domestic record was maintained after his dropping it's fair to say he can feel hard done by he didn't get to play a few more years in ODIs

 

[Zinzan]

Dhoni Completed 15 years in ODis.

If you are comparing him to another 15 year career , it's ok .
If you are comparing him to Beven , it's not ok. Beven career is just 10 years.
And the 15 year is an approximate measure . You should be flexible with that. 10 years in top form is a great career. 5 years is not. That's just peak years.

Well yeah, point articulated more clearly than I'd put it. (Apart from you misspelling MB's name).

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I'm a massive fanboy, yet I agree.

As far as ODI cricket goes, I think Kallis could have been a lot better if he'd begun his career in the T20 era, or slightly earlier.

He had remarkable raw power and the ability to dominate the crease; unfortunately he also had the role of anchor.

If he'd developed in the same era as Amla, AB, Faf etc, he might have developed into a very different ODI player.

All speculation, of course.

Anchor Role ? That's an excuse for your limited ability. There is no such role in ODis.