ODI ATG XIs

[Pap Finn Keighl]

South Africa lack a world class spinner but their biggest problem is that they'd dominate for 4 years and then choke when it was time for the world cup.

Since readmission I've always really enjoyed South Africa as a side. They've always had a few players I've really liked. Pollock, Donald, Smith, de Villiers etc...

With lion hearts Procter and Rice ? They won't.

 

[harsh.ag]

Gibbs
Amla
Kallis
Pollock
ABdV
QdK +
Klusener
Pollock
Procter
Tahir
Donald

Kirsten dropped for Pollock and Morne dropped for Procter.

 

[MrPrez]

Gibbs
Amla
Kallis
Pollock
ABdV
QdK +
Klusener
Pollock
Procter
Tahir
Donald

Kirsten dropped for Pollock and Morne dropped for Procter.

A true South African team; 6 genuine bowlers, and a guy who averaged nearly 30 at number 9.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Clive Rice
37.3 with bat
22.6 with ball

 

[Bolo]

Ya, needs rice. Kallis can go. He would be a liability with the bat in a team with that much firepower.

Maybe drop Donald for van der bijl as well. I dont think that much of Donald, although some disagree. Adds to the batting as well.

So much bowling there. Rice as a 5th and klusenar as a 6th is a big advantage. And the Pollock-AB double punch will win a lot of games.

 

[harsh.ag]

Clive Rice
37.3 with bat
22.6 with ball

Yeah, am not dropping any of the last 5 for that.

 

[MrPrez]

Ya, needs rice. Kallis can go. He would be a liability with the bat in a team with that much firepower.

Maybe drop Donald for van der bijl as well. I dont think that much of Donald, although some disagree. Adds to the batting as well.

So much bowling there. Rice as a 5th and klusenar as a 6th is a big advantage. And the Pollock-AB double punch will win a lot of games.

There's absolutely no chance either of those changes should be made.

A team with that much firepower would benefit from Kallis as an anchor.

Donald is in the discussion for ATG teams; there's no way he is kicked out of the side for van der Bijl.

 

[Bolo]

There's absolutely no chance either of those changes should be made.

A team with that much firepower would benefit from Kallis as an anchor.

Donald is in the discussion for ATG teams; there's no way he is kicked out of the side for van der Bijl.

Van der bijl is a bit dubious. Donald just a bit wild at times. I don't like that level of uncertainty in an atg odi side.

A weak batting unit would benefit from Kallis as an anchor. A strong one would not. This is a reliable lineup, even by atg standards because of how deep it goes. The fact that its full of firepower as well makes the argument for including kallis weaker, not stronger- you are leaving more runs on the table by not maximizing the balls faced by the more agressive guys. AB is scoring runs about 50% quicker than kallis in setting. This is going to hurt often- its not the same as Bevan batting down the order. This team is frontloaded with the slowest 3 at the top and power later. It's going to end up with a situation a bit like the 1st pak odi too often, where there are wickets in hand at the end, but not enough runs because of too much prodding.

 

[harsh.ag]

Gibbs and Amla are not slow.

 

[MrPrez]

Van der bijl is a bit dubious. Donald just a bit wild at times. I don't like that level of uncertainty in an atg odi side.

A weak batting unit would benefit from Kallis as an anchor. A strong one would not. This is a reliable lineup, even by atg standards because of how deep it goes. The fact that its full of firepower as well makes the argument for including kallis weaker, not stronger- you are leaving more runs on the table by not maximizing the balls faced by the more agressive guys. AB is scoring runs about 50% quicker than kallis in setting. This is going to hurt often- its not the same as Bevan batting down the order. This team is frontloaded with the slowest 3 at the top and power later. It's going to end up with a situation a bit like the 1st pak odi too often, where there are wickets in hand at the end, but not enough runs because of too much prodding.

If you're worried about the top 3, you could always just drop Kallis down the order to 5 or so. But "the slowest 3 at the top" also include the mercurial Gibbs and the man with an 89 SR - Hashim Amla. They're hardly going to be dawdling.

Anyway, the idea that Kallis couldn't bat quickly is a misnomer. He held the record for fastest test 50 at one point, and had a remarkable ability to play audacious shots that few others would attempt, let alone actually execute. His remarkable lofted straight drive is perhaps the finest example.

He batted in an incredibly fragile middle order for much of his career, which is why he did so much grinding - it was down to necessity, not ability.

 

[Red]

Yeah, what are we all doing. Should just pick as many Australians as possible and not overuse our damn brains so much.

That's what happens when you win the world cup most of the time I guess.

 

[Red]

Gibbs
Amla
Kallis
Pollock
ABdV
QdK +
Klusener
Pollock
Procter
Tahir
Donald

Kirsten dropped for Pollock and Morne dropped for Procter.

Picking GPollock when he never played an ODI?

Can Australians now pick Trumper or Miller in their ODI teams?

 

[harsh.ag]

Picking GPollock when he never played an ODI?

Can Australians now pick Trumper or Miller in their ODI teams?

This was in response to the post before that mentioning Pollock and Procter's List A exploits.

Would have Kirsten and Morne otherwise, as stated.

Trumper and Miller never played List A.

 

[MrPrez]

Picking GPollock when he never played an ODI?

Can Australians now pick Trumper or Miller in their ODI teams?

You can do what you want, but Pollock still played List A cricket, as did Procter. So there's actually something to base it on.

 

[Bolo]

Gibbs and Amla are not slow.

Slowest, not slow. Gibbs isnt too much of an issue- he can speed up as the game requires from a platform. Neither Amla nor kallis can accelerate though. You are going to see at least one of them batting deep into the innings very often. A huge 1st innings partnership between them is likely to be game losing on a flat wicket.

 

[mr_mister]

Would putting Kallis at 5 and ABDV at 3 solve the issue?

 

[Bolo]

Pollock makes the RSA test side without anyone complaining, and he was a better short form player than a long one, so putting him in isnt much of a stretch. And he's not competing against a great bat for a spot. Rsa don't have options better than good (or very good if you want to be generous).

 

[MrPrez]

Would putting Kallis at 5 and ABDV at 3 solve the issue?

Could also just promote QdK to opener and do something like

Gibbs
QdK
Amla
ABdV
Kallis
Pollock

Someone will have to bat at 6, but having QdK up front would balance the aggression if that was truly a worry.

 

[vcs]

Let's just not have Gibbs, match-fixing and all that.

 

[marc71178]

Akram , Garner , Donald , Hadlee , Waqar .. all Arguably better than McGrath

Anything can be argued whether it is right or wrong.

In this occasion I'm leaning to the latter.