*Official* India Tour of England 2018

[Pratters]

It is time for India to look forward - look at the next set of batsmen. Ganguly mentioned how picking the right players six months in advance when building an overseas team is important. We need to pick the right players who will work for us over the next few years.

 

[Borges]

In another lifetime, I had a coach who was an old time test player - guy would be well over 100 if alive today

His belief was that you go back when the ball is swinging, let the ball do its work and play it under the eyes e.g. Smith

Easier said than done but more sense to me than plonking the foot down

I think most good players of swing have tended to play the ball late, with the common refrain being 'see how much time he had to play that ball!'
Despite all that, the way Anderson and company were bowling on that wicket, one would still have needed a fair slice of luck to survive for a long time.

 

[S.Kennedy]

I read an article today in The Cricketer that posts the theory that India could shun internationals. It theorized that modern India is so nationalistic, why expose yourself to (away) national ridicule when you have the richest domestic competition in the world? Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[91Jmay]

Are you seriously forgetting SA recent tours of the subcontinent.... pretty sure that Aus qualifies as well.

Eng in Pakistan (UAE) as well. Abysmal.

 

[Borges]

Don't shoot the messenger.

Bang! Bang! Bang!

 

[Xuhaib]

how much Jimmy late career sustained excellence is down to a very poor era of batting? I believe world batting stocks have been at their lowest over the past 4-5 years and batsman look really out of their depth once they are out of their comfort zone and this has allowed some excellent bowlers like Anderson and Ashwin to really drive home their advantage when they face these batsman in conditions favoring them.

I love Jimmy but I don't think him having the best phase of his career in the final tenth of his career is just down to him bowling well I think lack of batting quality is playing its role..

 

[Pratters]

I read an article today in The Cricketer that posts the theory that India could shun internationals. It theorized that modern India is so nationalistic, why expose yourself to (away) national ridicule when you have the richest domestic competition in the world? Don't shoot the messenger.

Can happen eventually but not now when India does get ICC money inflows.

 

[Howe_zat]

Probably been mentioned in here already, but apparently Rashid was the first English test player in years to neither bowl, bat nor take a catch in a test match.

Batty in 2005 vs Bangladesh was the last, for similar reasons

 

[Howe_zat]

Many years ago when I was just coming into senior cricket, albeit obviously at a much, much lower level; one of the things coaches used to suggest when the ball was hooping was batting a long way out of your crease to combat it. I haven't watched much of the first two tests, but is that something the Indian batsmen have been trying against Anderson and Curran? I suspect it's not the accepted wisdom any more to do it, but it seems nothing they're doing atm is working, and neither of those blokes is quick enough that the batsmen would struggle with their pace if they gave it a try.

They have. Kohli, Rahane, Karthik especially have been doing it a lot.

The problem with it is that when they're batting out of the crease and lunging out to counter the swing, it results in the shorter deliveries that Anderson bowls from time to time becoming dangerous. I'm pretty convinced this is one of the reasons the English bowlers have been so unplayable (the other bigger reason obviously being that they've bowled great). They've bowled their fair share of deliveries short of a length but the emphasis on getting forward is so great that the shorter deliveries which should be harmless are becoming very uncomfortable to face.

Also, Bairstow was standing up to Curran

 

[Pratters]

how much Jimmy late career sustained excellence is down to a very poor era of batting? I believe world batting stocks have been at their lowest over the past 4-5 years and batsman look really out of their depth once they are out of their comfort zone and this has allowed some excellent bowlers like Anderson and Ashwin to really drive home their advantage when they face these batsman in conditions favoring them.

I love Jimmy but I don't think him having the best phase of his career in the final tenth of his career is just down to him bowling well I think lack of batting quality is playing its role..

I don't buy into this as he has been quite awesome.

 

[Howe_zat]

Late career Anderson is one of the best bowlers there's ever been - 50 tests, 200 wickets at 20 - trying to play that off as 'bad batting' is fairly pointless, as though top bowlers from the past never benefited from bad batting.

And I'm aware that is something that many people on this forum genuinely believe. The batting was better because the bowling was better because the batting was better.

 

[cnerd123]

Late career Anderson is one of the best bowlers there's ever been - 50 tests, 200 wickets at 20 - trying to play that off as 'bad batting' is fairly pointless, as though top bowlers from the past never benefited from bad batting.

And I'm aware that is something that many people on this forum genuinely believe. The batting was better because the bowling was better because the batting was better.

I think bad batting has played a role, in the extent that if he was bowling to a better generation of batsmen he'd be averaging like 21.5 instead of 20

 

[Howe_zat]

I think bad batting has played a role, in the extent that if he was bowling to a better generation of batsmen he'd be averaging like 21.5 instead of 20

I'm happy with the suggestion that batting has become more polarised, and players are generally better at home than they used to be and worse away. But I won't buy that batting on the whole across every player in each team is worse.

For one thing lower order batting has dramatically improved over the last 20 years.

 

[social]

Who was it?

George Tribe

Would’ve been 98 this year so a mere pup

Spent one winter school holidays being coached by he and Garry Sobers in Melbourne

I blame them for my lack of success

 

[cnerd123]

I'm happy with the suggestion that batting has become more polarised, and players are generally better at home than they used to be and worse away. But I won't buy that batting on the whole across every player in each team is worse.

For one thing lower order batting has dramatically improved over the last 20 years.

That's what I mean. I suppose Anderson would have averaged less away from home to cancel out averaging more at home tho, so probably still averages roughly the same overall.

Also a quick statsguru check shows runs scored by the lower order hasn't changed all that significantly over the decades:
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

Way up on 1990s, but roughly the same as the 1980s.

 

[Howe_zat]

That's what I mean. I suppose Anderson would have averaged less away from home to cancel out averaging more at home tho, so probably still averages roughly the same overall.

Also a quick statsguru check shows runs scored by the lower order hasn't changed all that significantly over the decades:
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

Way up on 1990s, but roughly the same as the 1980s.

Fair cop, it's hasn't 'dramatically' improved. I still feel like lower order batting has a responsibility to it that it didn't used to have though, perhaps they are better in partnerships with batsmen now rather than scoring a lot more runs themselves.

 

[Burgey]

George Tribe

Would’ve been 98 this year so a mere pup

Spent one winter school holidays being coached by he and Garry Sobers in Melbourne

I blame them for my lack of success

Of you watch footage from the 50s through to the 70s, it’s really noticeable how many blokes played a lot of fullish bowling off the back foot. Some of the clips just posted yesterday from the 77 series between Australia and India are good examples, as are a lot of the clips in the same thread.

 

[Groundking]

If the batting has been so **** recently why has there only been 2 bowlers (Abbas and Anderson) who've managed to break into the sub 20 average range since the start of 2017?

 

[Gnske]

If the batting has been so **** recently why has there only been 2 bowlers (Abbas and Anderson) who've managed to break into the sub 20 average range since the start of 2017?

It's seems difficult to get back into 19th century/early 20th century stats mode tbh.

 

[anaksr]

Head Coach:- Shastri Vs Kumble
Batting:- Bangar vs Dravid
Bowling:- Bharat Arun Vs Zaheer.

Sad part is that none from below two of them will personally would like to work with someone as arrogant as Virat. Imagine Bangar going up to Virat and asking him to make some technical adjustments. lol.