Shakib Al Hasan vs Ian Botham / Burgey vs *****

[jimmy101]

I hear what you're saying ***** but Shakib doesn't even have a nickname. Pretty hard to consider him an ATG when that isn't the case ;-)

 

[cnerd123]

Shakib doesn't need a nick name. He doesn't even need a last name. Utter the name Shakib and everyone knows who you're talking about. He's like Cher or Madonna or Prince. He's an icon. He's transcended the sport.

Meanwhile you talk about Ian and everyone goes "Ian Who?"

 

[Burgey]

In fact, I believe Shakib is the first act on Cher’s upcoming tour.

 

[cnerd123]

The mans got many skills

 

[jimmy101]

That's where "Beefy" comes into effect.

But in all seriousness I'd say Shakib will be an ATG by the time he retires. He's Bangladesh's first superstar. A little comparision between him & the first superstar produced by the other Test playing nations might be fun. Let me have a crack at this since I'm on lunch break.

AUS - Spofforth
BAN - Shakib
ENG - Grace
IND - Nayudu (or if he isn't good enough for you Merchant/Amarnath)
NZ - Cowie
PAK - Hanif/Fazal
RSA - Sinclair
SL - Somachandra de Silva (or Aravinda maybe)
WI - Headley
ZIM - Andy Flower

I'd rank them in this order in terms of skill & influence...

Grace
Headley
Spofforth
Shakib
Hanif (had to choose one of the above)
Cowie
Nayudu
Flower
Sinclair
S de Silva

 

[TheJediBrah]

True, if I was in the Caribbean I'd be trying to finish the game as quickly as possible too. Far too nice a place to be stuck in a cricket stadium.

 

[Engle]

That's where "Beefy" comes into effect.
SL - Somachandra de Silva (or Aravinda maybe)

I'd say Duleep Mendis

 

[jimmy101]

I'd say Duleep Mendis

Good call. Although a few people might think that neither Somachandra or Mendis fit the bill, and would probably opt for Aravinda (or maybe even Arjuna).

 

[Burgey]

I'd say Duleep Mendis

Who did remarkably well to come back from this...

When Duleep Mendis was nearly killed

 

[Mr Miyagi]

If it isn't Aravinda for Sri Lanka, then it has to be Dave Houghton for Zimbabwe and not A Flower. Even if Aravinda, I still think it is Dave Houghton for Zimbabwe.

 

[jimmy101]

Who did remarkably well to come back from this...

When Duleep Mendis was nearly killed

Yikes. I had read about Thomson's sandshoe crushers before, but had no idea just how hostile his spell was that day. All of that pre-protective gear too.

 

[Burgey]

Ian Chappell says that the team had copped a bit of bad press in the lead up to the tournament, especially Thommo for his wanting to see blood on the wicket comment, so once Australia posted a big score they basically went on a PR exercise; bowling full, clapping good shots by the Little Lankans etc.

But then it started to get a bit out of hand because the LLs looked like they might chase it down, so he brought Thomson back at full tilt, and in two overs he undid any decent PR built up over the preceding couple of hours. There is some footage of him hitting Mendis in the Cricket in the 70s video iirc. It’s an awful incident.

 

[OverratedSanity]

But then it started to get a bit out of hand because the LLs looked like they might chase it down, so he brought Thomson back at full tilt, and in two overs he undid any decent PR built up over the preceding couple of hours. There is some footage of him hitting Mendis in the Cricket in the 70s video iirc. It’s an awful incident.

Think I saw a clip of it in Fire in Babylon too. Straight on the forehead.

 

[jimmy101]

If it isn't Aravinda for Sri Lanka, then it has to be Dave Houghton for Zimbabwe and not A Flower. Even if Aravinda, I still think it is Dave Houghton for Zimbabwe.

For sure. I only went with Flower cause I doubt all that many people outside of CW would have heard of Houghton, and was trying to go for players which were the first "superstar" produced by their respective country.

I rate Houghton really highly btw. Averaged 40+ at Test level when he was getting on a bit & was the backbone of the Zimbabwean batting lineup

 

[Burgey]

Yeah my bad, I think you’re right. It was Fire in Babylon.

One of the few clips from almost side on which gives an idea of just how fast he was. For about two years he was maybe the the scariest and fastest bowler ever.

Also this article about him in a grade game is hilarious and scary all at once:

Wisden - Jeff Thomson is annoyed

 

[jimmy101]

Ian Chappell says that the team had copped a bit of bad press in the lead up to the tournament, especially Thommo for his wanting to see blood on the wicket comment, so once Australia posted a big score they basically went on a PR exercise; bowling full, clapping good shots by the Little Lankans etc.

But then it started to get a bit out of hand because the LLs looked like they might chase it down, so he brought Thomson back at full tilt, and in two overs he undid any decent PR built up over the preceding couple of hours. There is some footage of him hitting Mendis in the Cricket in the 70s video iirc. It’s an awful incident.

The press seemed to have it out for Chappelli's Australians. IMO they were doing nothing worse than John Snow or the Windies in the 80's. The only thing is Thommo was just too damn quick and the batsmen facing him, more often than not, had no way of protecting themselves.

 

[Burgey]

I think Chappell’s team was very brash, like him and was a bit of a shock to the establishment. I mean, Snow was a menace but he wrote poetry and was very urbane. Add to that Chappell’s role in starting WSC and you have a bloke the establishment was pretty keen to knock.

He also hated Bradman, so there was that.

 

[jimmy101]

I think Chappell’s team was very brash, like him and was a bit of a shock to the establishment. I mean, Snow was a menace but he wrote poetry and was very urbane. Add to that Chappell’s role in starting WSC and you have a bloke the establishment was pretty keen to knock.

He also hated Bradman, so there was that.

Ture, true. Although the '75 CWC game against SL (and by extension the '75/'76 home series against WI) preceded WSC. The "dirty Australians" tag seemed to be already baked in by the time that happened. I guess when you've got blokes like Lillee, Thommo & Chappelli ruffling feathers like they did you're bound to get some blowback from the English media who were already biased against them to begin with.


And yeah, I guess opposing Bradman is always gonna inititate problems. Bill Lawry would know all about that.

 

[Burgey]

That’s all true.

There was also the perception, albeit false, that before they came along fast bowlers didn’t bounce tail enders. It went on way before Lillee and Thomson (Lindwall bounced Tyson, Snow bounced Jenner etc) but they just made no secret of the fact they were just going to bounce the **** out of anyone and everyone.

FWIW if I could bowl quick I also wouldn’t pitch a ball in the batsman’s half. Ever.

 

[jimmy101]

There was also the perception, albeit false, that before they came along fast bowlers didn’t bounce tail enders. It went on way before Lillee and Thomson (Lindwall bounced Tyson, Snow bounced Jenner etc) but they just made no secret of the fact they were just going to bounce the **** out of anyone and everyone.

Yeah, it was probably statements such as that coupled with Thommo's blood on the wicket comment that changed things. In a way Chappelli's side of the mid-70's revolutionised the sport. For better or for worse, broadly speaking, they turned it from a gentleman's pastime into a highly competitive professional sport.