***Official*** Sri Lanka Tour of West Indies 2018

[cnerd123]

Yeah but he's talking about the level of evidence he requires to make up his mind on intent involved.

But my point is it's still cheating. Its still a no ball if you intend to overstep or not. You still get taken off the attack for dangerous bowing if you intend to or not. Your own personal judgement on Chandimal as a person shouldnt be the same as being able to say that he cheated.

Doesn't mean the umpires aren't open to criticism though. If an umpire gives a terrible lbw decision then he can be criticised on it, even though it was within his authority to give it.

Sure, but regardless of how bad the decision is or not you cannot hold the game hostage because of it.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I haven't really been following but how do you accidentally tamper with the ball?

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I haven't really been following but how do you accidentally tamper with the ball?

If only sandpaper was part of a healthy diet.

 

[weldone]

Looks like it's gonna rain today - lame

 

[Maximas]

Doesn't mean the umpires aren't open to criticism though. If an umpire gives a terrible lbw decision then he can be criticised on it, even though it was within his authority to give it.

And the key criticism in this case towards the umpires was the timing, they informed the SL camp that the penalty would be incurred and the ball changed about 10 mins before play on day 3, that's poor. No reason for the SL players to hold up the game though, that was outrageous.

Think everyone needs to wait for the video footage to emerge before final judgements are made, but we can be fairly certain that Chandimal has broken the rules in some way here, umpires don't just flippantly hand out these penalties.

As for the match, Kusal Mendis is forging a bit of a reputation for putting us in winning positions from tough spots, nothing more exciting than young batsmen who are already playing match-winning knocks. Would dearly love to see us able to put our best attack on the park though. Lakmal is the only first choice bowler playing this match

 

[Borges]

Lakmal is the only first choice bowler playing this match

Kumara has been excellent: he ought to be a first choice bowler.

 

[marc71178]

Don't think there was any cheating involved, looks more like subconsciously done. Exact reason for him to get angry. However if there is footage of him doing it over and over again, I would change my opinion.

That's on a par with Cevno and his back of the bat whinging.

 

[Black_Warrior]

So now it appears that Umpires asked for video footage and made the charge based on video evidence found. Wonder why this was not made public on the first day itself when for more than 2 hours no one knew what was going on. Would have also worked in shutting up Hathurasinghe and Chandimal putting up arguments.

How the ball-tampering episode unfolded in St Lucia - ESPNcricinfo


Anyway, it just further makes the point that ball tampering determination rests solely on broadcasters (an outside party) and not ICC officials, umpires or referee.

 

[Slifer]

Seriously, who gives two craps about SL cheating or not. I don't. But they got their panties all in a twist and held up the game for two hours. Completely disrespectful to the few people who paid to watch this test, not to mention their opponents. I'd like to see you SL fans be this cool if it were done to your team in your country....

 

[Burgey]

Its the subcontinental way to have a massive dummy spit when things don’t go our way on the field. Always has been.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Seriously, who gives two craps about SL cheating or not. I don't. But they got their panties all in a twist and held up the game for two hours. Completely disrespectful to the few people who paid to watch this test, not to mention their opponents. I'd like to see you SL fans be this cool if it were done to your team in your country....

Ok you don't care. That's cool. But I'm pretty sure the rest of the cricketing fraternity and anyone really who cares about facts and proper verification do.

 

[cnerd123]

Its wasn't made public right away because there are more important things than satisfying armchair analysts on a forum who think they are qualified to condemn trained paid professionals when they haven't even read the ****ing laws

Still waiting for said armchair experts to own up and apologise, ftr

 

[Black_Warrior]

Its wasn't made public right away because there are more important things than satisfying armchair analysts on a forum who think they are qualified to condemn trained paid professionals when they haven't even read the ****ing laws

Still waiting for said armchair experts to own up and apologise, ftr

Guy walks into an online forum full of armchair analysts, makes over 18k posts and then calls someone he disagrees with an armchair analyst.

Information on video footage should have been made public straight away since that's the very basis of the charge..and more so because your precious umpires can determine ball tampering even when it hits them in the face like in South Africa.

The armchair analyst would also like to raise the concerning matter that an important matter of ICC code of conduct is now determined by an external agency (the broadcaster) and not by any ICC official.

 

[cnerd123]

I'm an armchair analyst and I know my place and trust paid professionals know what they're doing, and atleast I bother to look up the laws and wait for information to come out before assuming the paid professionals were wrong.

You came out of the gate and assumed they were wrong, and now that you've been shown the laws and the information has come out, you have shifted post and are blaming them for not releasing the information sooner. Wtf man. Just cop it. You were wrong. Own up and move on instead of making out there was some wrongdoing that the ICC owes you an apology for

If anything, Maximas's point about the timing of telling the Sri Lankans what happened is probably the bigger issue that needs to be explained. However, being the armchair analyst that I am, I am going to assume there was good reason for doing so until it's proven otherwise

 

[Slifer]

I don't know if some of you (I assume lankans) can't get it through your head. Essentially, for two hours the wi batsmen and the cricket paying public were made to wait two hours when Sl could've done the common sense thing and carry on with the game and dispute the matter later. I'd like to see any team go to India and make their fans and batsmen wait in the middle for 2 hours!!

 

[Black_Warrior]

I don't know if some of you (I assume lankans) can't get it through your head. Essentially, for two hours the wi batsmen and the cricket paying public were made to wait two hours when Sl could've done the common sense thing and carry on with the game and dispute the matter later. I'd like to see any team go to India and make their fans and batsmen wait in the middle for 2 hours!!

Yeah I was talking specifically about the ball tampering and not the 2 hour delay. They are two separate matters. I have spoken about earlier already in the thread that there is no consistency or clarity on how officials act in these situations.

At the Oval, within 10 minutes the match was declared forfeited and ended and there was no pleading or phone calls or anything of the sort that we saw in this match. From following the Cricinfo coverage it appeared neither Srinath nor the umpires had any clue on what to do. If Sri Lankans refused to play, the match should have been forfeited straight away like at the Oval.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I'm an armchair analyst and I know my place and trust paid professionals know what they're doing, and atleast I bother to look up the laws and wait for information to come out before assuming the paid professionals were wrong.

You came out of the gate and assumed they were wrong, and now that you've been shown the laws and the information has come out, you have shifted post and are blaming them for not releasing the information sooner. Wtf man. Just cop it. You were wrong. Own up and move on instead of making out there was some wrongdoing that the ICC owes you an apology for

If anything, Maximas's point about the timing of telling the Sri Lankans what happened is probably the bigger issue that needs to be explained. However, being the armchair analyst that I am, I am going to assume there was good reason for doing so until it's proven otherwise

I made an informed post then (based on the information available) and I stand by that and I make an informed post now based on new information. You might find it odd but yeah even armchair analysts do that. And I simply raised some questions which I thought were valid then and still valid now and you got defensive and butt hurt over it. Here's the thing about being an armchair analyst online - you're not going to be the only one. People are going to say things you don't like or agree with and ask questions you don't like.

It has been clear now that ICC officials rely solely on broadcasters to determine ball tampering which seriously raises questions about their own process. You don't like to hear this I get that. But you will have to handle other people saying it on an online forum. Even if they're lowly armchair analysts.

You came out of the gate and assumed they were wrong, and now that you've been shown the laws and the information has come out, you have shifted post and are blaming them for not releasing the information sooner. Wtf man. Just cop it. You were wrong. Own up and move on instead of making out there was some wrongdoing that the ICC owes you an apology for

I did not say they were wrong at all. I simply asked some questions about their process.

If anything, Maximas's point about the timing of telling the Sri Lankans what happened is probably the bigger issue that needs to be explained. However, being the armchair analyst that I am, I am going to assume there was good reason for doing so until it's proven otherwise

Again, it's clear how little you actually read and follow the coverage. The delay was caused because they requested for the video footage and went through it all to find the evidence.

This piece sums it up really well. Just read it.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/23822234/how-ball-tampering-episode-unfolded-st-lucia

Following play on the second evening on Friday, in which Sri Lanka were straining for wickets, on-field umpires Aleem Dar and Ian Gould, and television umpire Richard Kettleborough had concerns over the methods Sri Lanka had used to maintain the ball. As a result, they approached the broadcasters for footage which could support or confirm their suspicion.

The next morning, the umpires viewed footage (which has now been aired), of Chandimal reaching into his pocket, seemingly retrieving something from it to put in his mouth, and only a couple of seconds later, applying that saliva to the ball before handing it to bowler Lahiru Kumara.

Delays are caused because the whole thing is totally out of the umpires hands. It depends fully on the broadcasters and their processes of finding and going through footage as they own it.

 

[cnerd123]

Yeah I was talking specifically about the ball tampering and not the 2 hour delay. They are two separate matters. I have spoken about earlier already in the thread that there is no consistency or clarity on how officials act in these situations.

At the Oval, within 10 minutes the match was declared forfeited and ended and there was no pleading or phone calls or anything of the sort that we saw in this match. From following the Cricinfo coverage it appeared neither Srinath nor the umpires had any clue on what to do. If Sri Lankans refused to play, the match should have been forfeited straight away like at the Oval.

You're using the word should so liberally

Umpires dont have to do anything. They have complete freedom to apply the laws as they see fit, within the constraints of the ICC Guidelines and Playing Conditions, and ultimately the Match Referee can make the final call

We allow for this because no two situations are ever the same, and common sense dictates that you allow there to be room to apply laws such as this on a case by case basis

Not only that, but you do not know the discussions taking place. The Sri Lankans may have never formally forfeit the game and refuse to play. They may have simply refused to take the field without further clarification, which is then a situation that the umpires and match referee are left to interpret as a refusal to play - again, I refer you to the laws

You just want an excuse to claim bias and inconsistency when the very laws that apply have been written to allow for subjectivity and umpire discretion. You were unaware of this and now are not wrapping your head around it. Nothing was done wrong, and if you now want to take the stance that the entire Law is incorrect and should be rewritten then you need to justify why. All you've done is highlight very different situations and then complain about them being handled differently - which is the whole ****ing point

 

[weldone]

So now it appears that Umpires asked for video footage and made the charge based on video evidence found. Wonder why this was not made public on the first day itself when for more than 2 hours no one knew what was going on. Would have also worked in shutting up Hathurasinghe and Chandimal putting up arguments.

How the ball-tampering episode unfolded in St Lucia - ESPNcricinfo


Anyway, it just further makes the point that ball tampering determination rests solely on broadcasters (an outside party) and not ICC officials, umpires or referee.

Don't make it sound like 2 hours were lost due to umpires' fault.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Its the subcontinental way to have a massive dummy spit when things don’t go our way on the field. Always has been.

And it will be rewarded as it always is. We've seen what happens when someone owns up to a mistake and apologises. What a twisted precedent.