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*Official* Pakistan tour of Ireland, England and Scotland 2018
- Thread starter Daemon
- Start date
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
That's pretty pathetic from England.
Mr Miyagi
Banned
Most countries don't have a top 5 keeper bat of Bairstow's quality, nor supposedly a number 6 of Stokes' alleged high quality so Buttler batting as a batsman at 7 as against different nations really isn't the issue. England has 5 bowlers and a keeper, so there isn't a balance issue of too muich batting. It is simply whether he is good enough to play as a specialist batsman.
It happens to Bangladesh often given their keeper Mushfiqur and Shakib are 2 of the best batsmen in the team. Probably happens to ZImbabwe too given Taylor is their best batsman and can keep wicket.
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TheJediBrah
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<3 Cookie
Go on to break Tendulkar's record son
edit: excelling? not sure tbh, I thought you were just asking if a specialist batsman had played at no. 7
Go on to break Tendulkar's record son
Can't give you any specific examples but I'm sure it's happened many, many times before. Even not taking into account nightwatchmen.
edit: excelling? not sure tbh, I thought you were just asking if a specialist batsman had played at no. 7
Yeah they've got a decent batting line-up on paper but just didn't perform. Not sure why they really expect much more from this Bess guy as a spinner than they got from Moeen, plus Moeen is a decent bat and performed really, really well last summer IIRC. I would have kept Moeen despite his struggles over the winter, just seems to offer a lot more than this random county spinner.
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Mr Miyagi
Banned
Yeah it is a bit ambitious to expect presumably the 7th best batsman in a country to excel, unless it is the Australian Gilchrist era. Regardless of taking the gloves or not.
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Borges
International Regular
Mid 140s for the most part. It was not extreme pace that troubled England; they bowled a very good length; they were consistent; and they were well backed up in the field.
S.Kennedy
International Vice-Captain
Sorry, I still do not get it. Just pulled a list of all the best averages at seven and they're all either keepers or allrounders.
If you are going Buttler, and I do not think for a second you should, I just think you should go the traditional 1-5 (specialist bats), 6 (allrounder) 7 (wicketkeeper) route, i.e., Buttler, Stokes, Bairstow - switch the two gingers around if you prefer? If you are playing Buttler as a specialist batsman you give him all the opportunities to still be around when there is batting to be had, and not just chucking him on the end as a spare part and hoping Bairstow or Stokes are still hanging around when Buttler's turn arrives. A lot of the time Buttler may find himself partnering The Burnley Lara!
Edit,
Another way to look at it is, Australia kept a wicketkeeper-batsman of Gilchrist's high (batting) quality back at seven. Now I know what you're going to say, Buttler is not a Ponting, Waugh, Martyn - or later a Clarke. But then you are only going to be as good as the players you have available, who presumably have been made available because of good ehh IPL performances/stats (I'd have normally said ''domestic''!!). Once you have those players you have to have the faith in them. The Aussies (and oppositions) saw Gilchrist's late arrival as a glass half full. ''Look, our wicketkeeper bats basically as good as our top order''.
If you are going Buttler, and I do not think for a second you should, I just think you should go the traditional 1-5 (specialist bats), 6 (allrounder) 7 (wicketkeeper) route, i.e., Buttler, Stokes, Bairstow - switch the two gingers around if you prefer? If you are playing Buttler as a specialist batsman you give him all the opportunities to still be around when there is batting to be had, and not just chucking him on the end as a spare part and hoping Bairstow or Stokes are still hanging around when Buttler's turn arrives. A lot of the time Buttler may find himself partnering The Burnley Lara!
Edit,
Another way to look at it is, Australia kept a wicketkeeper-batsman of Gilchrist's high (batting) quality back at seven. Now I know what you're going to say, Buttler is not a Ponting, Waugh, Martyn - or later a Clarke. But then you are only going to be as good as the players you have available, who presumably have been made available because of good ehh IPL performances/stats (I'd have normally said ''domestic''!!). Once you have those players you have to have the faith in them. The Aussies (and oppositions) saw Gilchrist's late arrival as a glass half full. ''Look, our wicketkeeper bats basically as good as our top order''.
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Mr Miyagi
Banned
I honestly think you're over complicating it and trying to make the available talent fit a prescribed team formula, when the best available talent should determine the team structure.
I think when you have an allrounder and a wicket keeper in the top 6 already, which England do, they're more than free to play a specialist bat at 7, and still have 5 bowling options.
The bigger question for me is not whether Bairstow is one of the top 5 bats in England, as he probably is, it is whether Butler is the 6th best not incl Stokes, or 7th best incl Stokes, and whether Johnny would be even better if giving up the gloves altogether.
I have no issue with Buttler batting below Bairstow and Stokes - I think it best he face an older ball and more tired bowling where possible, I just wonder if England wouldn't have been better with Bairstow dropping the gloves altogether and Foakes being given a chance.
And to be honest, Butler is the perfect guy to bat the with the tail, at full pace, he is England's most destructive batsman who can make quick runs as the bunnies get out. Buttler is one of the most destructive batsman around.
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TheJediBrah
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Players wishes matter though. Stokes and Bairstow are more valuable, and they probably don't want to move down the order. Forcing your golden geese (so to speak) down the order and making them bat behind someone that they view as inferior might just piss them off enough to send them off the rails late one night assaulting ****s at nightclubs and headbutting randoms they just met
smash84
The Tiger King
At least they won't resort to using sandpaper
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
Quite good. The best of the lot by a distance. Was driving very early in his innings, going forward and leaving well.
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
TheJediBrah
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They ain't that dumb.At least they won't resort to using sandpaper
Rubbing some sandpaper on a ball gets you a 1 year ban, bashing someone outside a club just gets you a month or 2 paid holiday
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
And getting drunk and punching an opposition player in the bar over a fake beard gets you even less
cnerd123
likes this
Can't punish Warner too harshly for that, punching people when drunk is Australian culture
TheJediBrah
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*alleged fake beard
edit: And wouldn't you expect punching a guy once in a bar to get you less though? Not sure where you're going with this
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wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Root looks like the captaincy is taking its toll.
We've done away with the safety net at 7 & 8
And our domestic system stopped producing test match batsmen some while because the idiots running it just don't have a ****ing clue.
And judging by the last hour yesterday, our bowling isn't any better.