Hypocrisy of the "Hard but Fair" Bunch

[cnerd123]

So posts the fella who’s saying the WI crowd should suck up being called monkeys because it’s not offensive in Indian culture.

Nah they shouldn't suck it up. Gavaskar should learn not to say stuff like that again. But to say Gavaskar was racist in intent is wrong and unfair.

It's possible to understand where he is coming from with his remarks and to also know that it's not okay.

 

[Victor Ian]

Neither did Border talk about race. He was just doing a very 70s thing and dropping water bombs on people from a hotel.

 

[social]

Gavaskar accused Proctor of being racist as skin colour was (in his own warped mind) the only reason why The Weed was found guilty

Guy's a charmer

 

[cnerd123]

Neither did Border talk about race. He was just doing a very 70s thing and dropping water bombs on people from a hotel.

I don't think what Border did was racist.

Definitely disgusting tho.

 

[Victor Ian]

I don't think what Border did was racist.

Definitely disgusting tho.

Why disgusting? Childish or boorish perhaps, but not disgusting. I did the same thing in the 70's, without throwing money down to lure in my targets - and I WAS a child then. I just waited.

 

[cnerd123]

Why disgusting? Childish or boorish perhaps, but not disgusting. I did the same thing in the 70's, without throwing money down to lure in my targets - and I WAS a child then. I just waited.

You were a disgusting child

 

[Ausage]

***** dude. Even I'd say that comment is really racist, probably even by 1970's standard.

 

[cnerd123]

***** dude. Even I'd say that comment is really racist, probably even by 1970's standard.

Did you grow up in India?

 

[Athlai]

Why disgusting? Childish or boorish perhaps, but not disgusting. I did the same thing in the 70's, without throwing money down to lure in my targets - and I WAS a child then. I just waited.

Deliberately humiliating poor and desperate people is disgusting.

Randomly flinging water bombs at anyone is more just childish.

 

[Ausage]

Did you grow up in India?

There's a point where it doesn't matter. It still fits neatly into the classification.

 

[cnerd123]

It's is possible to say or do something without the intent to cause offense, yet cause offense due to not being aware of the implications of those words or actions on the target audience.

We all know this.

It's very clear (to me) that Gavaskar didn't mean his words to be racist, but he should have known better, and being unaware is no excuse for him saying that. Nevertheless he doesn't deserve the label 'racist' attached to him because there was no racist intent in his words.

AB and co. definitely had the intent to humiliate these poor and desperate people for their own entertainment. Even tho their actions seem not as bad as a racist speech, their intent is multitudes worse , and therefore to me their actions are far more disgusting than Gavaskars rant.

 

[jimmy101]

This is so clearly another example of Australians trying to draw the line by their own standards and then demand the rest of the world follow it.

Gavaskar didn't mention race at all. He condemned the behaviour of the crowd. And while it's very wrong (and very Australian) of him to judge another country's people's behaviour against his own personal standard of how they should behave, he didn't at all suggest that their race is the cause of such behaviour (in that snippet that was posted)

The reason you think it's racist is because you view his quote from the eyes of a westerner - your culture actually used to tell people who were darker than you that they were monekys and should return to the jungles. That's a racist comment your culture used. And because that's a part of your culture and your history, you now assumed everyone uses those words and concepts in the exact same way.

But you're wrong, obviously. Indians have never used the comparison to monkeys or told people to go back to a jungle as an insult to people darker skinned than them. This is not a racist rhetoric in our culture the culture where Gavaskar is from. It is an elitist one, oh sure, but not racist and there is a clear difference. But to state that Gavaskar was being racist by your terms (#CrossingTheLine) and ignoring his own culture background, that's just such a bullshit Australian thing to do. "Hey we draw the line based on what we think is right and you need to adhere to that, your own culture and values don't matter to us.'

This is why we need this thread IMO. You Australians gotta to learn to smell your own bullshit

Kinda shines a new light on the whole Symonds fiasco from 10 years ago.

 

[jimmy101]

Until I joined this forum I was unaware it was an insult to call Pakistanis pakis. It was never really considered an insult in Australia to do so, rather it was just a shortening of a nationality. Do you think because that’s the case I should just use the term? Seriously, go to Jamaica, call a crowd a pack of monkeys and try running with “where I come from it’s not offensive.”

Yeah, same. I never realized that was actually insulting til fairly recently. Same with calling Jewish people Jews I suppose.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Am I the only one who doesn't see the Gavaskar quote as racist? He's clearly criticising the behaviour of the crowd, npt once is race even mentioned. I understand in Australian and western culture the word 'Monkey' carries racist connotations, but it doesn't in India, so it's misleading to view that quote through an Aussie lens (#DrawingTheLine).

Obviously not a good thing to speak so terribly about passionate cricket fans who don't meet your own personal code of behaviour, but that's different from being racist.

Stahp

 

[smash84]

Yeah, same. I never realized that was actually insulting til fairly recently. Same with calling Jewish people Jews I suppose.

Wait, is calling jewish people Jews insulting? I honestly didn't know of this. It really is an eye opener.

 

[Shri]

Keep going *****. Its always fun to see you dig your own holes. If he were a pokemon, he would be Sandshrew.

 

[cnerd123]

Kinda shines a new light on the whole Symonds fiasco from 10 years ago.

Did you know we have Gods that are Monkeys? Why would we also then use that word as a racist insult? Against a man who is lighter skinned than us.

In any case, that's a can of worms that was open and closed ages ago. Point being - words and actions have different meanings in different places. We can't expect the entire world to be up to date on what is culturally appropriate in Australia or England and expect them all to uphold that standard. There is nuance here, and there needs to be an understanding that sometimes lines will be crossed, but we can talk it over, forgive the offending parties for not being aware, educate them on what's appropriate, and move forward. There should be room for understanding and accepting each others cultures and histories, and we should do our best to accommodate everyone. That's what sports is for.

Unless you're Australian. Then sport is also for cheating.

 

[Ausage]

It's is possible to say or do something without the intent to cause offense, yet cause offense due to not being aware of the implications of those words or actions on the target audience.

We all know this.

It's very clear (to me) that Gavaskar didn't mean his words to be racist, but he should have known better, and being unaware is no excuse for him saying that. Nevertheless he doesn't deserve the label 'racist' attached to him because there was no racist intent in his words.

AB and co. definitely had the intent to humiliate these poor and desperate people for their own entertainment. Even tho their actions seem not as bad as a racist speech, their intent is multitudes worse , and therefore to me their actions are far more disgusting than Gavaskars rant.

It doesn't matter. He compared black people were apes and belonged in the jungle. It's absolutely racist. Whether he meant his words to be racist is a completely different question (though I'd point out that those weren't the impressions of a kid living a sheltered existence in India when he wrote them), but not really that relevant to whether it neatly fits into the definition.

As to whether it's worse than AB, I don't think anyone but you really cares. They're both pretty ****** things to do/say.

 

[Burgey]

Did you know we have Gods that are Monkeys? Why would we also then use that word as a racist insult? Against a man who is lighter skinned than us.

In any case, that's a can of worms that was open and closed ages ago. Point being - words and actions have different meanings in different places. We can't expect the entire world to be up to date on what is culturally appropriate in Australia or England and expect them all to uphold that standard. There is nuance here, and there needs to be an understanding that sometimes lines will be crossed, but we can talk it over, forgive the offending parties for not being aware, educate them on what's appropriate, and move forward. There should be room for understanding and accepting each others cultures and histories, and we should do our best to accommodate everyone. That's what sports is for.

Unless you're Australian. Then sport is also for cheating.

Because it had already been used as an insult against him by Indian crowds on a previous tour. It’s really not hard to work out.

 

[cnerd123]

Because it had already been used as an insult against him by Indian crowds on a previous tour. It’s really not hard to work out.

All insults aren't racist