Hypocrisy of the "Hard but Fair" Bunch

[Shri]

This from a cricinfo article quoting his 1976 autobiography:

Which brings us back to Gavaskar. Because all this "monkey" talk can't help but remind the cricket bibliophile of the chapter in Gavaskar's autobiography Sunny Days (1976) in which he recounts the blood-spattered Kingston Test of 1976 where Bishan Bedi famously declared his innings closed rather than risk further injury for his batsmen from the West Indian pace enfilade. Here's a sample:

To call the crowd a 'crowd' in Jamaica is a misnomer. It should be called a 'mob'. The way they shrieked and howled every time Holding bowled was positively horrible. They encouraged him with shouts of 'Kill him, Maaaan!' 'Hit im Maan!', 'Knock his head off Mike!' All this proved beyond a shadow of doubt that these people still belonged to the jungles and forests, instead of a civilised country....
Their partisan attitude was even more evident when they did not applaud any shots we played. At one stage I even 'demanded' claps for a boundary shot off Daniel. All I got was laughter from the section, which certainly hadn't graduated from the trees where they belonged....

They were stamping their legs, clapping and jumping with joy. The only word I can think of to describe the behaviour of the crowd is 'barbarian'. Here was a man seriously injured, and these barbarians were thirsting for more blood, instead of expressing sympathy, as any civilised and sporting crowd would have done....

The whole thing was sickening. Never have I seen such cold-blooded and positively indifferent behaviour from cricket officials and the spectators, to put it mildly, were positively inhuman.

I would have called a crowd chanting the word 'kill' animals as well. I don't see much wrong in this instance but yeah, Sunny is a **** too and there is plenty of proof for that other than this.

 

[Burgey]

Burgey's right, TOTAB was just expressing a different POV, people can mature and change. And even if they don't these different perspectives are needed for a healthy and full discourse.


Riiiiiiiiight?

I don’t think the views are necessary at all. They’re bloody awful.

 

[Shri]

Way to miss my entire point.

Ok then, India have had six players banned for match fixing in international cricket. Australia have had none banned. Ever.

Yeah, India did something about their fixing while Australia didn't do anything to Warne and Marky Waugh. #Moralhighground

 

[GotSpin]

Wait, so its okay now for moderators to start threads just targeting one country?

 

[Burgey]

Harsh probably meant to post it on planet cricket

 

[GotSpin]

Well now that I know this is acceptable I'll just start some threads targeting other nations. Drag a few skeletons out of the closet

 

[Shri]

Well now that I know this is acceptable I'll just start some threads targeting other nations. Drag a few skeletons out of the closet

Start with Sydney, 2008. I'll grab the popcorn.

 

[Tom Flint]

What happened in 2008?
And what truth is there in the Waugh and warne story?

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

#banHarshDotAg

 

[social]

I guess what it shows is that even icons are human and some have ****** sides to them or have said and done ****** things.

I don’t think you should read everything gavasakar or Border say in 2018 and respond with “well in 1976/79/85 you said this....”. We’re talking 30-40 years ago. People change, they grow up and mature.

That’s not excusing what either said or did. It’s just a fact. You’d hope in 20-30 years time Smith looks back on this and realises what a Grade A pillock he was.

That doesn’t mean if he makes a comment on something in the game 25 years from now it should be automatically disregarded. Likewise with these two blokes now.

I think a healthy dose of scepticism wrt the comments of all former players and journos is a good attitude to take, but I don’t think we can just disregard their views on current issues because they said or did something **** 40 years ago. You’d hope they’ve grown up and realised what they said and did was ****ed up.

AB was the first captain that I played under in A grade

In those days, I can tell you that he was a total chameleon whose moods went from sullen & silent to explosive anger to friendly in a heartbeat

Looking back on it, I simply attribute it to his youth/ambition and in the times that I've seen him since, he's been very decent

I think it's called growing up

 

[Burgey]

God, imagine dropping a sitter with TOTAB as skipper. ****ing terrifying.

 

[social]

God, imagine dropping a sitter with TOTAB as skipper. ****ing terrifying.

Been there, done that

Not quite a sitter but copped it all the same

Next ball, I caught an absolute screamer and nobody came within 30 metres of me as he was still blowing up about the drop costing the team runs, about fkn time, etc etc

Good times

 

[cnerd123]

Am I the only one who doesn't see the Gavaskar quote as racist? He's clearly criticising the behaviour of the crowd, npt once is race even mentioned. I understand in Australian and western culture the word 'Monkey' carries racist connotations, but it doesn't in India, so it's misleading to view that quote through an Aussie lens (#DrawingTheLine).

Obviously not a good thing to speak so terribly about passionate cricket fans who don't meet your own personal code of behaviour, but that's different from being racist.

As for a mod starting a thread to abuse Australians - he should have done it sooner IMO.

 

[Burgey]

Except he talks about the crowd going back to the jungle and the trees.

 

[cnerd123]

Except he talks about the crowd going back to the jungle and the trees.

Where all humans came from...

 

[Burgey]

In answer to your first post, yeah you are.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Am I the only one who doesn't see the Gavaskar quote as racist? He's clearly criticising the behaviour of the crowd, npt once is race even mentioned. I understand in Australian and western culture the word 'Monkey' carries racist connotations, but it doesn't in India, so it's misleading to view that quote through an Aussie lens (#DrawingTheLine).

Obviously not a good thing to speak so terribly about passionate cricket fans who don't meet your own personal code of behaviour, but that's different from being racist.

 

[cnerd123]

This is so clearly another example of Australians trying to draw the line by their own standards and then demand the rest of the world follow it.

Gavaskar didn't mention race at all. He condemned the behaviour of the crowd. And while it's very wrong (and very Australian) of him to judge another country's people's behaviour against his own personal standard of how they should behave, he didn't at all suggest that their race is the cause of such behaviour (in that snippet that was posted)

The reason you think it's racist is because you view his quote from the eyes of a westerner - your culture actually used to tell people who were darker than you that they were monekys and should return to the jungles. That's a racist comment your culture used. And because that's a part of your culture and your history, you now assumed everyone uses those words and concepts in the exact same way.

But you're wrong, obviously. Indians have never used the comparison to monkeys or told people to go back to a jungle as an insult to people darker skinned than them. This is not a racist rhetoric in our culture the culture where Gavaskar is from. It is an elitist one, oh sure, but not racist and there is a clear difference. But to state that Gavaskar was being racist by your terms (#CrossingTheLine) and ignoring his own culture background, that's just such a bullshit Australian thing to do. "Hey we draw the line based on what we think is right and you need to adhere to that, your own culture and values don't matter to us.'

This is why we need this thread IMO. You Australians gotta to learn to smell your own bullshit

 

[Burgey]

So posts the fella who’s saying the WI crowd should suck up being called monkeys because it’s not offensive in Indian culture.

 

[Burgey]

Until I joined this forum I was unaware it was an insult to call Pakistanis pakis. It was never really considered an insult in Australia to do so, rather it was just a shortening of a nationality. Do you think because that’s the case I should just use the term? Seriously, go to Jamaica, call a crowd a pack of monkeys and try running with “where I come from it’s not offensive.”