South Africa team selection

[R!TTER]

SeamUp mentioned in the tour thread that maybe Morkel needs to be dropped probably for Ngidi; I know he took some wickets late in the day and it feels very, very harsh... but in both the Indian series and this first game he just is not making the impact you would like, particularly considering he is getting the new ball. It would be an easy choice if Steyn was available.

In PE, Morkel may be better with that back of length that could keep low... but Ngidi does bowl at the stumps with that angle in, perfect for a 3rd seamer on lower, slower wickets? Difficult choice. I will say that if Ngidi plays , I may be tempted to play Mulder as cover with an extra bowler; Cant see him scoring less runs than de Bruyn has done? I am assuming that Bavuma is not available. Tough selection decisions for SA.

Ngidi should play btw why do you need a cover? Are any of the other bowlers not fully fit?

If you take away the nightmare series Bavuma had against Sri Lanka (10 runs over 3 matches), he averages 37.51 in 24 matches. Only one century there, but far from "a proven failure".

That's not much to go by tbh, de Bruyn needs a longer rope especially if you're also looking for Amla, AB's replacements.

 

[SeamUp]

Temba probably lacks the talent to go through the gears to get those 100s.

Right now I do think he is better technically than de Bruyn. But that doesn't mean its still not mediocrity after so many chances.

Right now I think it is important the right people are speaking to them. For Temba and Theunis they need to know what is required of them. They need to show they can step up and be the main men outside the 3 senior players like Markram, Elgar and de Kock have shown in their careers.

I think they are lining these 2 up to replace 2 of the seniors so they rapping them in cotton wool. This is because of the talent gap (Rossouw, van Zyl, Ackermann) and coinciding with the weakness of the franchise system.

But there is a requiredlevel SA cricket has set over a long period of time. You can't let standards drop otherwise it will be difficult to climb back up. The franchise system has made this extremely tough on us to keep ticking over.

 

[StephenZA]

Temba probably lacks the talent to go through the gears to get those 100s.

Right now I do think he is better technically than de Bruyn. But that doesn't mean its still not mediocrity after so many chances.

Right now I think it is important the right people are speaking to them. For Temba and Theunis they need to know what is required of them. They need to show they can step up and be the main men outside the 3 senior players like Markram, Elgar and de Kock have shown in their careers.

I think they are lining these 2 up to replace 2 of the seniors so they rapping them in cotton wool. This is because of the talent gap (Rossouw, van Zyl, Ackermann) and coinciding with the weakness of the franchise system.

But there is a requiredlevel SA cricket has set over a long period of time. You can't let standards drop otherwise it will be difficult to climb back up. The franchise system has made this extremely tough on us to keep ticking over.

Only real added bonus that Bavuma gives us over de Bruyn is his fielding. If I had my choice I would be picking Mulder in place of de Bruyn, particularly with Morkels form. That pitch map of Morkels showing 65% of his deliveries bouncing short of a good length throughout the match and he was been given the new ball, is just not good enough. But I don't think he should be dropped.

Morris scoring that ton must throw wrench into the works again.....

 

[SeamUp]

Only real added bonus that Bavuma gives us over de Bruyn is his fielding. If I had my choice I would be picking Mulder in place of de Bruyn, particularly with Morkels form. That pitch map of Morkels showing 65% of his deliveries bouncing short of a good length throughout the match and he was been given the new ball, is just not good enough. But I don't think he should be dropped.

Morris scoring that ton must throw wrench into the works again.....

You bring up a good point about fielding.

Geez we found it difficult to replaces Jakes and Biff in the slips.

AB not keeping anymore but Faf fielding less there (captaincy or finger?), Amla are decent.

But they gone soon too.

Elgar caught some really good one's but clanged about 3. I saw de Bruyn there this last test.

 

[Bahseph]

If de Bruyn gets dropped AGAIN he really should feel hard done by. Yeah he failed in the first dig but so did everyone bar AB and Markram. What message are they sending by dropping him after that little fighting knock in the second dig? I love Temba, but he is never an automatic selection for me.

 

[SeamUp]

If de Bruyn gets dropped AGAIN he really should feel hard done by. Yeah he failed in the first dig but so did everyone bar AB and Markram. What message are they sending by dropping him after that little fighting knock in the second dig? I love Temba, but he is never an automatic selection for me.

It's hard to argue with this. He does deserve a run of 5/6 games in a row to let us know where he is.

Tough decision.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'd usually agree but he only played this game due to injury in the first place. I don't really consider it a dropping unless you drop down the pecking order, and I see nothing to indicate he'd climbed over Bavuma in the pecking order to begin with.

 

[StephenZA]

The de Bruyn/Bavuma option also comes down to incumbent... SA likes to bring back incumbent players that were just injured. If de Bruyn had replaced any of the other 5 batsmen this discussion would not have happened? Not saying he doesn't deserve the spot.... and with quotas he will probably find himself unlucky again. Still think that Bavuma has that extra little edge because of his fielding...

From my point of view, not being in the camp and not knowing the dynamics and being harsh. I would drop de Bruyn and Morkel for Mulder and Ngidi.... I think it is a more progressive, but also rolling the dice against the Aussies. I don't think that we will lose much in worst case scenario and I think those players have the potential to bring hunger into the team.

Edit: PEWS beating me to it....

 

[Rasimione]

The de Bruyn/Bavuma option also comes down to incumbent... SA likes to bring back incumbent players that were just injured. If de Bruyn had replaced any of the other 5 batsmen this discussion would not have happened? Not saying he doesn't deserve the spot.... and with quotas he will probably find himself unlucky again. Still think that Bavuma has that extra little edge because of his fielding...

From my point of view, not being in the camp and not knowing the dynamics and being harsh. I would drop de Bruyn and Morkel for Mulder and Ngidi.... I think it is a more progressive, but also rolling the dice against the Aussies. I don't think that we will lose much in worst case scenario and I think those players have the potential to bring hunger into the team.

Edit: PEWS beating me to it....

Mulder to bat at 7?

 

[SeamUp]

Steyn to play 9th round of Sunfoil Series to push case for 3rd test selection.

 

[StephenZA]

Mulder to bat at 7?

6 or 7, probably 7 with QDK at 6.

 

[StephenZA]

Steyn to play 9th round of Sunfoil Series to push case for 3rd test selection.

May he take many many wickets....

 

[SeamUp]

May he take many many wickets....

On KFM breakfast yesterday he said seeing all this just makes him want to get on the park. He was about to bowl after the interview too.

Also reckons the de-merit points are effecting KG's edge.

 

[SeamUp]

I'd usually agree but he only played this game due to injury in the first place. I don't really consider it a dropping unless you drop down the pecking order, and I see nothing to indicate he'd climbed over Bavuma in the pecking order to begin with.

The de Bruyn/Bavuma option also comes down to incumbent... SA likes to bring back incumbent players that were just injured. If de Bruyn had replaced any of the other 5 batsmen this discussion would not have happened? Not saying he doesn't deserve the spot.... and with quotas he will probably find himself unlucky again. Still think that Bavuma has that extra little edge because of his fielding...

From my point of view, not being in the camp and not knowing the dynamics and being harsh. I would drop de Bruyn and Morkel for Mulder and Ngidi.... I think it is a more progressive, but also rolling the dice against the Aussies. I don't think that we will lose much in worst case scenario and I think those players have the potential to bring hunger into the team.

Edit: PEWS beating me to it....

That is why it is a tough one.

There may be a case of the incumbent having many chances and not quite doing enough ? They were willing to go 6/5 split possibly for this reason.

That is why when Temba plays again he needs to be told what they expect of him if SA want to keep challenging at the top.

 

[StephenZA]

That is why it is a tough one.

There may be a case of the incumbent having many chances and not quite doing enough ? They were willing to go 6/5 split possibly for this reason.

That is why when Temba plays again he needs to be told what they expect of him if SA want to keep challenging at the top.

Very much so... and not just Temba, I think they have been tough on Morris and Phehlukwayo as well. Because we are struggling with this 6/7 position so much we keep throwing different ideas around and throwing players in that are realistically out of position.

This is why I keep going back to Mulder (other than the obvious talent) he is a batting allrounder, McMillan, Stokes, M Marsh type player (not comparing skill levels! (Yet!)). Clearly he bats 6/7 and can come on as a 4th seamer when needed. No other player in SA comes close to that potential (sorry, but Morris is still a bowling allrounder for me.)

 

[SeamUp]

Very much so... and not just Temba, I think they have been tough on Morris and Phehlukwayo as well. Because we are struggling with this 6/7 position so much we keep throwing different ideas around and throwing players in that are realistically out of position.

This is why I keep going back to Mulder (other than the obvious talent) he is a batting allrounder, McMillan, Stokes, M Marsh type player (not comparing skill levels! (Yet!)). Clearly he bats 6/7 and can come on as a 4th seamer when needed. No other player in SA comes close to that potential (sorry, but Morris is still a bowling allrounder for me.)

There are also rumblings of why Otis replaced Neil Mac with Benkenstein but that is another story.

Before the first test Faf spoke about Mulder but it seemed to go along the lines of learning experience as they see him playing a big part in the future. Especially to have a 5th bowling option.

I wasn't sure how much to read into it and how realistic his chances were of playing this series but no doubt he is the type of player who can balance us beautifully if/when he takes to international cricket.

 

[Dendarii]

Before the first test Faf spoke about Mulder but it seemed to go along the lines of learning experience as they see him playing a big part in the future. Especially to have a 5th bowling option.

I wasn't sure how much to read into it and how realistic his chances were of playing this series but no doubt he is the type of player who can balance us beautifully if/when he takes to international cricket.

While I understand the idea of bringing a player who's been earmarked for the future into the team environment, should he be there if realistically there's no chance of him playing? Would he not be better served by playing franchise cricket rather than carrying drinks? There is obviously a necessity to have players on hand in case something happens to one of the first choice players on the eve (or morning) of the test, but is Mulder actually a backup in that sense?

 

[SeamUp]

While I understand the idea of bringing a player who's been earmarked for the future into the team environment, should he be there if realistically there's no chance of him playing? Would he not be better served by playing franchise cricket rather than carrying drinks? There is obviously a necessity to have players on hand in case something happens to one of the first choice players on the eve (or morning) of the test, but is Mulder actually a backup in that sense?

This would be the ideal thinking.

But I think it started at the end of Domingo's reign (same selectors) that they can't rely on the domestic system anymore so whilst playing is important they giving equal importance to exposing them to high quality training with high quality players.

But in saying that, he was 12th man in this test and took a catch. Obviously no Temba but I just wonder what sort of conversations are going on about him among the staff. Maybe he is impressing so much that actually playing isn't out of the equation.

One thing that did concern me. Whilst I understand his bowling will be crucial and getting his chance initially at 7 in the batting order they mustn't forget he is a proper batsman first and there was a comment by Faf I think that he didn't seem to know that. Hopefully spending more time with the senior group they get to know his game more too.

 

[StephenZA]

This would be the ideal thinking.

But I think it started at the end of Domingo's reign (same selectors) that they can't rely on the domestic system anymore so whilst playing is important they giving equal importance to exposing them to high quality training with high quality players.

But in saying that, he was 12th man in this test and took a catch. Obviously no Temba but I just wonder what sort of conversations are going on about him among the staff. Maybe he is impressing so much that actually playing isn't out of the equation.

One thing that did concern me. Whilst I understand his bowling will be crucial and getting his chance initially at 7 in the batting order they mustn't forget he is a proper batsman first and there was a comment by Faf I think that he didn't seem to know that. Hopefully spending more time with the senior group they get to know his game more too.

Was Gibson not very impressed with him early on when he started scoping talent? Think he made comments regarding him wanting to be in the SA setup sooner rather than later, obviously with Gibson's preference with an allrounder at 7 not surprising.... surprised Faf did not know that he was a batting allrounder?
/gibson-backs-talented-mulder-for-2019-20171018

 

[SeamUp]

Was Gibson not very impressed with him early on when he started scoping talent? Think he made comments regarding him wanting to be in the SA setup sooner rather than later, obviously with Gibson's preference with an allrounder at 7 not surprising.... surprised Faf did not know that he was a batting allrounder?
/gibson-backs-talented-mulder-for-2019-20171018

Remember him arriving in SA then press conference in the morning and then supposedly went to Centurion first and then Wanderers later and when there saw Mulder taking wickets. Saw him working with Mulder with the ball before that ODI game he got against the Bangers too.

I don't think we should be too critical of Faf. It isn't that bad. But I rather them realise that he should be picked not because he can be a 5th bowler but rather that he can be part of a top 7 with the bat.

“When we play seven batsmen it means we have three seamers and the spinner [Keshav Maharaj], which seems a touch thin. The fact that Theunis de Bruyn can bowl a few back-up overs of medium-pace is a push in the right direction for him. If we tend towards a batting all-rounder then it will be Theunis, but if we need someone to bowl more overs then we would tend towards Wiaan Mulder,” Du Plessis said, while revealing that Temba Bavuma is definitely out of contention because has not recovered fully from his fractured finger.