South Africa team selection

[S.Kennedy]

Surprising if it is a natural retirement. Depressingly predictable if it is a Kolpak decision. Watch this space...

 

[Stefan9]

Our players do tend to retire early in SA cricket. Who were the last who earned the right as SA legends ? Smith, Kallis, Boucher, Ntini, S.Pollock, G.Kirsten ?

Smith retired too early tbh. Bouch was forced to retire a few games early. Kallis should have retired from all cricket and not try to continue with the odi's as he did.

 

[GRAB]

Guess it's a response to the intimations that he's not likely to be in contention for the next World Cup?

 

[Bahseph]

Really sad to see big Morne go. I've always been a fan of his. He definitely got overlooked because he has been surrounded by Steyn, Philander and KG. But he has always been improving and that's really all you want.

I do agree that Smith could have probably played a little longer skill wise. But he didn't have the hunger left did he? Didn't seem so to me at the end against Johnson.

 

[StephenZA]

Guess it's a response to the intimations that he's not likely to be in contention for the next World Cup?

I think he had a better chance for the WC than the Test team? If Steyn is back (big if I know!) then Morkel is most likely to be placed between him, Rabada and Philander. With Bavuma coming back and Mulder in the squad and QDK's form it seems unlikely we will be going with an outright 5 man attack.

He obviously knows where he stood as he did speak to Gibson and selectors, and hopefully they were honest enough that it allowed him to make the best decision for his family and himself.

 

[Bahseph]

Moving this conversation away from the Tour thread. My heart wants Mulder to be the player that gives us balance. And having seen him play I think he has the goods. But is he ready? My head says not yet. But I'd be so tempted to play him. Thoughts?

 

[Stefan9]

Really sad to see big Morne go. I've always been a fan of his. He definitely got overlooked because he has been surrounded by Steyn, Philander and KG. But he has always been improving and that's really all you want.

I do agree that Smith could have probably played a little longer skill wise. But he didn't have the hunger left did he? Didn't seem so to me at the end against Johnson.

Without his ex wife pushing him towards early retirement the hunger would have lasted longer imho.

 

[Dendarii]

Really sad to see big Morne go. I've always been a fan of his. He definitely got overlooked because he has been surrounded by Steyn, Philander and KG. But he has always been improving and that's really all you want.

I've felt for a long time that Morkel was the perfect support bowler for the others. He's widely regarded as being one of the most awkward bowlers to face because of his height and the bounce he gets, and while that awkwardness doesn't necessarily translate into wickets, what it does do is unsettle the batsmen, and unsettled is not a state you want to be in when you've got to deal with Steyn, Philander, or Rabada the next over. So while it's not possible to quantify it, I think some of their success can be credited to Morkel (although they're obviously superb bowlers who would have done well on their own anyway).

The problem with Morkel is that when they were missing he wasn't able to step up and lead the attack. Until recently when he finally seems to have got it right, only for him to decide to call it a day.

 

[Dendarii]

Moving this conversation away from the Tour thread. My heart wants Mulder to be the player that gives us balance. And having seen him play I think he has the goods. But is he ready? My head says not yet. But I'd be so tempted to play him. Thoughts?

I'm inclined to agree that he's not quite ready and could benefit from another season of franchise cricket. But if we want to have four quicks and a spinner then he has to play, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn out on Thursday.

 

[SeamUp]

Was just thinking - if AB, Hash, Faf, (Steyn/Philander) do call it a day around world cup time then this could be their last 'big' Test series. I was hoping they would make their last hurrah after the WC away to India and home to England but I seem to doubt it even more now. Morkel gone and a long time team mate.

So after Australia it is SRL (a), Zim (h), Pak (h), SRL (h)

 

[StephenZA]

Was just thinking - if AB, Hash, Faf, (Steyn/Philander) do call it a day around world cup time then this could be their last 'big' Test series. I was hoping they would make their last hurrah after the WC away to India and home to England but I seem to doubt it even more now. Morkel gone and a long time team mate.

So after Australia it is SRL (a), Zim (h), Pak (h), SRL (h)

It could also come down to who is putting their hand up... maybe some stay on if the next generation is still struggling. If Elgar, QDK, Markram, de Bruyn, Bavuma have all stepped their game up and we not as reliant, with guys like Breetzke, von Tonder, Hamza etc showing good promise then it may be easier for them to step down. But if SA cricket is struggling then maybe they get convinced to stay another year?

 

[SeamUp]

It could also come down to who is putting their hand up... maybe some stay on if the next generation is still struggling. If Elgar, QDK, Markram, de Bruyn, Bavuma have all stepped their game up and we not as reliant, with guys like Breetzke, von Tonder, Hamza etc showing good promise then it may be easier for them to step down. But if SA cricket is struggling then maybe they get convinced to stay another year?

You definitely right that circumstances could change or demand at least asking them to stay on for that series. I really hope they go out with a big series. Also considering I would use the Sri Lanka test tour and the A tour to India possibly prepare the next batch but I would hate for us to send a team without a senior world class batsman to India. It would be tough.

I was thinking about sort of the depth of talent. With us not sure of a few guys we got to hope the 3rd batch are gaining the right experience to put the right number of runs and wickets on the board in the next few years.

Markram, Elgar, Amla, AB, Faf, de Kock, Mulder, Philander, Maharah, Rabada, Steyn/Morkel

Malan, Second, Hamza, de Bruyn, Bavuma, Klaasen, Phehlukwayo, von Berg, Olivier, Ngidi, B.Hendricks

Rickelton, Pillay, Breetzke, van Tonder, Muthusamy, Moonsamy, Verreynne, Piedt, Williams, Nortje, Dupavillon (de Zorzi, Cohen)

 

[StephenZA]

You definitely right that circumstances could change or demand at least asking them to stay on for that series. I really hope they go out with a big series. Also considering I would use the Sri Lanka test tour and the A tour to India possibly prepare the next batch but I would hate for us to send a team without a senior world class batsman to India. It would be tough.

I was thinking about sort of the depth of talent. With us not sure of a few guys we got to hope the 3rd batch are gaining the right experience to put the right number of runs and wickets on the board in the next few years.

Markram, Elgar, Amla, AB, Faf, de Kock, Mulder, Philander, Maharah, Rabada, Steyn/Morkel

Malan, Second, Hamza, de Bruyn, Bavuma, Klaasen, Phehlukwayo, von Berg, Olivier, Ngidi, B.Hendricks

Rickelton, Pillay, Breetzke, van Tonder, Muthusamy, Moonsamy, Verreynne, Piedt, Williams, Nortje, Dupavillon (de Zorzi, Cohen)

Realistically outside your first line of current first choice, the guys highlighted are for me the only ones I see actually being good enough to play Test level cricket (not LO stuff). Probably being tough on Klaasens, von Berg and Olivier... everybody else either limited good players in my mind, or just doing a little to late in career as anything but a stop-gap. I really like the next level though, can see some great potential there and with the younger guys in the current team can see us continuing to do well....

 

[SeamUp]

Realistically outside your first line of current first choice, the guys highlighted are for me the only ones I see actually being good enough to play Test level cricket (not LO stuff). Probably being tough on Klaasens, von Berg and Olivier... everybody else either limited good players in my mind, or just doing a little to late in career as anything but a stop-gap. I really like the next level though, can see some great potential there and with the younger guys in the current team can see us continuing to do well....

It will almost be beneficial to start an SA u23 team again like we had in the 90s. Kallis, Gibbs, Ackerman etc

Don't want to sound biased because it isn't about that but really hope some coastal batsman start putting enough runs on the board as generally they are more adaptable batsman without the hard hands which seems to have effected the new generation of playing spin.

I don't think Graeme Smith can teach anyone the way he played spin defending into it but Amla and AB absorbed so much from Kallis in this regard.

 

[Rasimione]

I'm really worried about our batsmen. The de Bruyn, Bavuma generation look average and kinda like they've reached their ceiling as test players. Qouta requirements seem to be hitting hard at domestic level and a lot of promising players take a few more years to become regulars in the franchise set up. When Faf, AB and Amla retire it might be touch and go.

 

[StephenZA]

It will almost be beneficial to start an SA u23 team again like we had in the 90s. Kallis, Gibbs, Ackerman etc

Don't want to sound biased because it isn't about that but really hope some coastal batsman start putting enough runs on the board as generally they are more adaptable batsman without the hard hands which seems to have effected the new generation of playing spin.

I don't think Graeme Smith can teach anyone the way he played spin defending into it but Amla and AB absorbed so much from Kallis in this regard.

I think it would be great if we could identify an older age group players like an u23. Feel like some talented players may go missing after school stage sometimes, also gives those youngsters that are not FC cricket exposure. Obviously still have varsity, is that what the development academy team is?

 

[StephenZA]

I'm really worried about our batsmen. The de Bruyn, Bavuma generation look average and kinda like they've reached their ceiling as test players. Qouta requirements seem to be hitting hard at domestic level and a lot of promising players take a few more years to become regulars in the franchise set up. When Faf, AB and Amla retire it might be touch and go.

People say this.... but can you name the specific white players at FC level that are not making the franchise teams because of quotas? And how many of those are quality enough to be potentially threatening for international call up in 2-3 years time? I know there is a few maybe 1/2 in the bigger provinces that should be playing franchise? Markrma maybe spent an extra 6 to 12 months before getting into the franchise team? But was always on the radar and accelerated into international team. Who else?

I am not trying to be facetious about this, I am seriously interested because the implication appears that at least a dozen or more white players who are top quality not playing franchise and I just don't see it?

 

[SeamUp]

Yeah, the SA Academy is for provincial players and players in-between provincial and franchise. Obviously the the pathway from SA u19s , franchise colts and university weeks. But you can only be a part of the academy for one off-season. Just be a nice if the best young cricketers not in SA set-up played and toured together every off season.

I definitely do think there are a number of players who shouldn't playing franchise cricket blocking more talented players.
Titans system is probably the only one spot on.

 

[Stefan9]

If Steyn's fitness holdup I see him carrying on, same for big Vern. I don't see the batsmen carrying on.

 

[SeamUp]

If Steyn's fitness holdup I see him carrying on, same for big Vern. I don't see the batsmen carrying on.

Hope so. Especially bowling on the sub - We need that experience to rub off. Also with the Duke ball. We saw KG's first experience with it too. Always learning.

Steyn
Philander
Rabada
Ngidi
Olivier/Dupavillon

Then just need to find a lefty. Seems like Cohen and Burger are front-runners there from younger batch. B.Hendricks is 28 at the moment.