South Africa team selection

[Bolo]

We need the extra batman, but with the call for slow tracks, 4 bowlers looks shakey. Its not an issue if we have maharaj, Steyn, kg, Philander playing, but relying on Steyn's fitness in a 4 man attack is a big call until he has a number of clean games under his belt. I'm also a bit nervous about playing ngidi in a 4 man as well given his history of injuries and how green he is, but he does seem less risky than steyn right now.

Unless Steyn gets some serious overs in I probably pick all three of the below teams next series depending on conditions:

Bavuma
Maharaj
Philander
KG
Morkel

Maharaj
Philander
KG
Steyn
Ngidi

Bavuma
Philander
KG
Morkel
Ngidi

Assuming all of these guys are fit, this works out pretty well for quotas as well, although obviously accounting for future form is tricky.

No half-assed allrounders for fictitious team balance. I'm a huge fan of allrounders (far more so than most people on this site), but not norounders in the form of Phel and Morris at the expense of needed batsman or great bowlers. And our lower order is actually extremely solid anyway.

 

[GRAB]

And the bowlers...
As of end of round robin, best career franchise one-day batting averages:

R NAME M W AVE RO
01 TAHIR 39 59 21,2 4,5
02 STEYN 28 43 21,4 4,4
03 SHAMSI 27 46 23,7 5,0
04 DALA 31 50 25,2 6,0
05 M MORKEL 22 28 25,8 4,6
06 PHEHLUKWAYO 22 27 26,1 5,2
07 MORRIS 30 36 27,0 4,9
08 DE LANGE 43 70 27,2 5,3
09 ABBOTT 43 58 27,3 5,2
10 VON BERG 24 35 27,4 5,3
11 OLIVIER 10 17 28,2 5,9
12 BIRCH 61 84 28,3 5,1
13 BUDAZA 24 30 28,4 5,5
14 GQAMANE 35 38 28,5 5,8
15 VILJOEN 44 71 29,4 5,9
16 WILLIAMS 20 29 29,5 5,7
17 MCLAREN 94 110 29,6 5,2
18 HENDRICKS 33 51 30,0 5,6
19 J MORKEL 94 84 30,1 5,1
20 PARNELL 53 71 30,4 5,5
---
23 MAGALA 38 48 31,2 5,6
25 LEIE 37 52 31,5 5,5
26 MULDER 13 17 31,6 5,5
27 LINDE 14 20 31,9 5,2
29 NGIDI 14 16 32,6 5,4
30 FRYLINCK 79 91 33,6 5,4
33 MAHARAJ 28 31 36,2 5,1
36 PRETORIUS 32 34 37,0 5,1
39 PATERSON 30 36 37,6 5,1
46 SHEZI 32 30 43,2 5,7
48 PHILANDER 61 42 44,2 4,9

 

[StephenZA]

We need the extra batman, but with the call for slow tracks, 4 bowlers looks shakey. Its not an issue if we have maharaj, Steyn, kg, Philander playing, but relying on Steyn's fitness in a 4 man attack is a big call until he has a number of clean games under his belt. I'm also a bit nervous about playing ngidi in a 4 man as well given his history of injuries and how green he is, but he does seem less risky than steyn right now.

Unless Steyn gets some serious overs in I probably pick all three of the below teams next series depending on conditions:

Bavuma
Maharaj
Philander
KG
Morkel

Maharaj
Philander
KG
Steyn
Ngidi

Bavuma
Philander
KG
Morkel
Ngidi

Assuming all of these guys are fit, this works out pretty well for quotas as well, although obviously accounting for future form is tricky.

No half-assed allrounders for fictitious team balance. I'm a huge fan of allrounders (far more so than most people on this site), but not norounders in the form of Phel and Morris at the expense of needed batsman or great bowlers. And our lower order is actually extremely solid anyway.

Steyns fitness while a concern, it is a little bit of a myth as well.... he broke his shoulder and needed 12 months to get back, he looked really good and fit in the first match until the point, through pure bad luck, he tore a muscle in his foot. Likelihood of him breaking his shoulder or tearing a muscle in his foot again? Unlikely for me. Or is his age to much? Only he could really know that. With Rabada and Maharaj in the team I would not mind playing only 4 bowlers, even if one of them was a Steyn. Right now with the terrible form of QDK I want the extra batsmen, but if Steyn is available he must play. If QDK's form comes good then a 6/5 split is fine.

As regards you comment about all rounders, most posters on this site would agree with you on 'norounders'; CW posters are not fans of dodgy all rounders; a good quality all rounder can balance a team, but most also recognize that one of the disciplines needs to get them into the team itself and the other discipline is a bonus; that is a true allrounder. Even if selectors around the world seem to try push almost anybody that looks marginally allrounder like, into teams.

SA have, unfortunately, no real quality allrounders at the moment (after many years of having lots).... best hope is probably Mulder but he is not ready yet.

 

[Bolo]

Steyns fitness while a concern, it is a little bit of a myth as well.... he broke his shoulder and needed 12 months to get back, he looked really good and fit in the first match until the point, through pure bad luck, he tore a muscle in his foot. Likelihood of him breaking his shoulder or tearing a muscle in his foot again? Unlikely for me. Or is his age to much? Only he could really know that. With Rabada and Maharaj in the team I would not mind playing only 4 bowlers, even if one of them was a Steyn. Right now with the terrible form of QDK I want the extra batsmen, but if Steyn is available he must play. If QDK's form comes good then a 6/5 split is fine.

As regards you comment about all rounders, most posters on this site would agree with you on 'norounders'; CW posters are not fans of dodgy all rounders; a good quality all rounder can balance a team, but most also recognize that one of the disciplines needs to get them into the team itself and the other discipline is a bonus; that is a true allrounder. Even if selectors around the world seem to try push almost anybody that looks marginally allrounder like, into teams.

SA have, unfortunately, no real quality allrounders at the moment (after many years of having lots).... best hope is probably Mulder but he is not ready yet.

I'm not writing off Steyn by any means. He's been phenomenally fit for most of his career and was bowling well in the first test. Steyn's been by far our most valuable player over his career. It's not a coincidence that our record has gone down the toilet since he's been injured.Most of his injuries have been pretty bad luck, but he is on one hell of a stretch of bad luck. If his foot recovers tomorrow, I think he still needs to prove himself with some serious game time before sticking him in a 4 man attack. My team picks will likely be proven irrelevant quickly. Steyn will either be fit and we go 4 man or he won't be in the team at all, but I'm making team calls based on not being able to be sure at this stage. Our batting is 90s level fragile at the moment (qdk especially problematic, but it's also having no top draw batsmen recently). We need the extra bat, but if we are effectively playing a 3 man attack on much softer batting wickets (which we'd expect vs the Aussies), we will end up getting spanked.

On allrounders, as I said, I'm a bigger fan than most in this site. I absolutely believe there is a place for 1 player who isn't a top five bowler or batsman in a lot of sides. I'd happily put Morris or Phehlukwayo in for team balance if I thought they were going to be averaging 30 as batsmen, or take either with sub 40 batting averages and reduced bowling skills, but I don't see it. Reversing Morris's batting and bowling talent would help team balance sufficiently for me to put him in the side, despite neither discipline alone being good enough to get him in.

 

[SeamUp]

Worst is Faf only gave Phehlukwayo 10 overs all game, so presumably he wasn’t happy or felt confident enough to bowl Phehlukwayo more, which isn’t good for the player or team.

The thing is, there just wasn't any need for a 5th seamer on that pitch or even on a normal Wanderers pitch.

It will just go down as they wrong selection for the wrong reasons.

Right now we have doubts about Theunis de Bruyn even with his dominant domestic record. Games like these is where we find out more about de Bruyn for the medium to long-term. Opportunity missed.

 

[SeamUp]

the funny thing about this India series.

Cape Town jagged around. Wrong call at the toss and batted immediately after rain day when the wicket sweated. Toughest times to bat on both occasions in the match.

Pretoria was a wicket that the ball lacked fizz the minute it hit the wicket but it did spin from day 1, session 1.

Wanderers was a lottery at times.

All 3 jagged around though and we went into these games with 5 batsman (1 newbie) and an out-of-form keeper for all 3. These wickets were always going to do something but we took greater risk going in with a batsman light. I understood Cape Town but more so if it was the usual Cape Town at that time of year which it wasn't.

Now we going to go into a series against Australia who are more used to the bounce than India but supposedly we going to go in with slow seamers so unless it seams/swings all test it will be tougher to get 20 wickets so probably more need of 5 bowlers in this series.

I just say we go back to 6 batsman, keeper , 3 seamers and a spinner. And now it will be late season the pitches will offer turn I imagine.

We need to make sure Dale is fit and firing. I am hoping he can get a couple of 4-day games in for the Titans. We also need to look after Ngidi.

 

[SeamUp]

It’s not even a like-for-like selection. Farhaan is a finisher and Zondo isn’t. S/R in this year’s Momentum Cup is 65 with a highest score of 46. Really poor selection and if they don’t play him will he have a cry again?

I think Zondo is 'meant' to be a finisher because he doesn't bat 3/4 for the Dolphins. He is meant to fill the 'finishers' spot at 5/6. Thing is with him, you don't know what you going to get.

Not a massive Behardien fan but no one comes close to Miller, Duminy and Behardien in SA right now for the roles. Even if he will be 36 by the next world cup and 'looking at options'

That being said - lets see if he can grab these opportunities. Think he will have to be given India and Australia at least to be fair to him.

 

[SeamUp]

WORLD-CUP 2019 Build up

Squad for India

Amla
de Kock
du Plessis
de Villiers
Miller
Duminy
Markram
Zondo

Phehlukwayo
Morris

Rabada
Morkel
Ngidi

Tahir
Shamsi


Batsman/keepers

Slightly controversial with Zondo over Behardien.

If the above play to their peak I can't see any of Malan, R.Hendricks, JJ Smuts, Klaasen, vd Dussen coming anywhere near breaking into the batting/keeper equation.

All-rounders

Can we see Parnell, Frylinck, Pretorius breaking in ?

Parnell has had loads of games now but even with his left-arm variation doesn't swing the ball or even have change-ups. With the last Champs Trophy probably putting the nail in his coffin , he didn't even score the runs needed.

50-over cricket probably a bit of a push for Frylinck. I think T20 he is a must.

Pretorius. Not sure he can warrant getting in as a batting all-rounder big-hitter. His bowling is too pedestrian to have limited change-ups ?

Whilst Wiaan Mulder has loads of talent I think it wouldn't be ideal to pick him so young before he has put the ideal numbers on the board.

Bowlers (seam and spin)

A slight concern is 5 bowlers who are in the squad and not batting deep if we go with 3 of them. At worst 10-11.

With the quicks. Steyn is the only one capable of breaking in. I wouldn't really think Paterson, Magala, B.Hendricks or Dala get a look-in.

The spinners equation slightly more complicated. Can we go with 2 non-batting spinners ? If they went all-rounder route is Maharaj definitely ? Can Linde's batting get him in the equation.

 

[Bahseph]

The fact that we won this series with a Steyn injury, just five batters, QDK's horrid run and no centuries really should be savored. In fact we had crucial runs scored by everyone including a handy 40 by QDK in the first game.

I'm just very worried about Steyn in a four man attack just yet. Especially with no Duminy to pick up the slack if need be. If he can play some games for the Titans and come through unscathed then obviously he plays. As an ATG should. Maharaj, Steyn, Vern and Rabada for me. Morkel next in line and then Lungi. I know Morkel was patchy at times in this series but he is an immensely improved bowler. Finally living up to his potential.

 

[SeamUp]

Definitely loads of positives to take from the series.

Besides us showing off our pace depth we still have batsman capable of stepping up at different times in testing conditions.

The other positive is we've been a team in mixed transition with a lot of our key senior players missing. We now starting to get them back and bringing in 2 massive talents in Markram/Ngidi it canonly benefit being around them. Like before them we got QdK and KG through. It's how we've been.a successful test team.

Think we have some batsman and a batting all-rounder bubbling under the surface to hopefully fill some voids. I think this is of vital importance that we look at this closely to carry on being a dominant force. I hear Neil Mac is working with next level batting talents in SA. It should be pretty obvious what age group (19-23) he should be working with.

We have a couple of wrist-spin options to work with for Asia tours to add variety.

Finally we need to just think about a 3rd and 4th seamer option to support KG and Lungi in a few years.

 

[Bahseph]

Yeah Olivier won't embarrass himself imo. Doesn't have the potential of those two but he can get the job done if no one else comes along. I do hope we find someone though, cos Maharaj has the potential to be around for the better part of a decade at his age.

 

[SeamUp]

You right. We can be too harsh on Olivier considering he has done eveything asked of him and perhaps more really.

Only average to disappointing performance was first Bangers test on a sub-continental Potch.

 

[StephenZA]

Finally we need to just think about a 3rd and 4th seamer option to support KG and Lungi in a few years.

Gerald Coetzee looked good. And to be honest I really don't want a 4th seamer to often (obviously as backup) but am starting to really really hope that Mulder comes good.[h=1][/h]

 

[StephenZA]

I was very happy with the CT selection of the team. Ngidi was a surprise at Centurion, did well and was a great positive step. Phehlukwayo selection was truly truly terrible, for the team, the player and the supporters. I don't mind seeing him in the LO team, I think he has real talent, but he should not be playing in the Test team against India or Australia. The fact that he bowled so few overs and batted below Philander makes you ask what he was picked for because obviously Faf had no confidence in him.

I think we did enough in the 1st and 2nd tests to show how good we can be, but we have not put the performances together that i would truly want to see. In all 3 tests we were below par on the runs, and we needed our bowlers to do a lot of the work to keep us ahead. Which they did well in the 1st and 2nd. The 3rd test the bowlers let India off in the 2nd innings and the minute India scored 200+ we were never likely to win. Again our batting was not quite up to scratch. Many of the batting woes could be put down to us playing 6 batsmen with one of them in woeful form on tough pitches. India did bowl well at stages. I like the fact that all of the top 5 scored some runs during the tour, but we need more consistency.

QDK is a real concern. We have seen him go through this sort of poor form before. Difference is he was 21/22 then and came back with a bang afterwards; my concern here is he is now 25 and been playing at international level for awhile and I have not seen him score ugly runs; his defensive batting needs to be sorted (not change the player he is) because every player goes through ups and downs, but the best players score runs even in their droughts. We cannot afford to only get 10`s and 20`s from him every time he is a little out of form. The difference between an in form QDK and not, turns us from a potentially great team to an OK team. We seriously need to consider going back to the 7/4 split during the Aus series. Maybe with the return of Morris and/or Steyn we can rethink that.

 

[SeamUp]

Gerald Coetzee looked good. And to be honest I really don't want a 4th seamer to often (obviously as backup) but am starting to really really hope that Mulder comes good.[h=1][/h]

Yeah I don't think it's a major concern we will find a couple more. We just need at least 4 to cover injury and work-load.

Whether it's Dupavillon/Williams as skiddy bowlers, Cohen/Burger as left-arm options or Olivier, Nortje, Coetzee I am sure someone from that lot will step up at the times needd.

The key will be Wiaan Mulder for work-load like you say. A true all-arounder needs to be able to score test match hundreds and he will be well capable of that as well getting key break-throughs.

Thing is with Morris and Phehlujwayo - are they capable if doing what Klusener and S.Pollock were capable of doing in scoring test match hundreds ? The answer at this moment is no so they have to be getting in as bowlers mainly.

 

[StephenZA]

Whether it's Dupavillon/Williams as skiddy bowlers, Cohen/Burger as left-arm options or Olivier, Nortje, Coetzee I am sure someone from that lot will step up at the times needd.

Yeah, our pace bowling stocks continue unabated...

Thing is with Morris and Phehlujwayo - are they capable if doing what Klusener and S.Pollock were capable of doing in scoring test match hundreds ? The answer at this moment is no so they have to be getting in as bowlers mainly.

Morris possibly, but think he is a temporary solution. Phehlukwayo unless he increases pace is not gonna do it. Stock LO bowler who strikes the ball well is what he is capable of at the moment; haven't seen any further improvement. It is the perennial 6/7 batting allrounder/wk problem that all teams struggle with.... Damn Kallis (and co.) for spoiling us for so many years.

 

[SeamUp]

QDK is a real concern. We have seen him go through this sort of poor form before. Difference is he was 21/22 then and came back with a bang afterwards; my concern here is he is now 25 and been playing at international level for awhile and I have not seen him score ugly runs; his defensive batting needs to be sorted (not change the player he is) because every player goes through ups and downs, but the best players score runs even in their droughts. We cannot afford to only get 10`s and 20`s from him every time he is a little out of form. The difference between an in form QDK and not, turns us from a potentially great team to an OK team. We seriously need to consider going back to the 7/4 split during the Aus series. Maybe with the return of Morris and/or Steyn we can rethink that.

It's not like we didn't see this coming after his Ram Slam performances.

He hasn't been himself since the first test at Lords where he looked a million dollars on a spinning, dry pitch. The talk had been going on for some time about the promotion to 6.

But it would be mad to think he isn't capable of doing it. Of course he is. In my mind something else is up & I can't put my finger on it. We know we don't want QdK thinking about things too much and I just hope that never happened. Thinking back he wasn't even himself in the Champs Trophy. So around that time something happened and I can't put my finger on it if it is something personal or things were said and cluttered his mind.

 

[StephenZA]

QDK did get married? That causes all sorts of mental issues!


Sorry that was terrible......!

 

[SeamUp]

QDK did get married? That causes all sorts of mental issues!


Sorry that was terrible......!

I was waiting for someone else to say it

Supposedly moved to Knysna too and they always putting up pictures of their 'kid' dogs !

 

[Heboric]

Now AB is out injured, surely they will give Markram another go