England disintegrating like in 2013-14 Ashes - Johnson

[Top_Cat]

Starc is starting to reach the point of being criminally under-rated on this forum. All the same criticisms of him were levelled at Akram, especially by the ****ing English when playing in England. "Oh he's erratic, he'll never do well in England!" Goes forth to take some wickets anyway. "Yeah but they were all tail-enders!" So he takes some top-order poles. "Yeah but he only took those because there was a straight guy (Waqar and Aaqib) at the other end!" The whinging is incredible.

Know what he averaged in England? 28 over four series', only one of which did he take any 5-fers. Starc averages 31. It's definitely closer than I thought.

Examine your bias', ffs. I'm no great fan of Starc, personally, but so many of ya don't get what to value in a quick bowler, especially in a leftie who's generally going balls-out for wickets. For me he also beats Morkel anywhere but that's at least arguable.

Starc would only make the England attack because none of their 3rd seamers can hold down a spot. He wouldn't be within a whisper of challenging Anderson or Broad for their spots. You don't drop guys who average low-20s at home for literally anyone.

This is for much the same reason why many Australians would struggle to pick Anderson in an Australian side. Your bowlers are honed to your own conditions and it's hard to justify picking another bowler unless they have a history of doing really well in that country.

No argument with this but Starc's closer in England to making the England Test side as 3rd quick than Anderson is to the Aussie side in Oz. 4 series' in and Anderson has only just began to repair his bowling average for being too close to 40 for a guy with his rep.

 

[stephen]

Yeah I honestly don't see how it's a debate anywhere but South Africa about whether Starc makes a full strength team.

And even in South Africa, I'm pretty sure that selectors would pick Starc over Philander in the majority of circumstances because Starc offers something that Steyn and Rabada don't - he's a 150kph left armer. His erratic bowling might not be as numerically effective as Philander's, but it sure looks more impressive and honestly, that's what generally counts for selection if we're being realistic.

Starc isn't as good as Philander, but he certainly could pip him in a real-world selection contest.

Starc is a heap better than Morkel. He's younger, faster, has a better average, strike rate and wickets per match and is a left armer. There is literally nothing Morkel offers over him except the capacity for more defensive bowling. And if they wanted a more defensive bowler then Philander would be the third seamer over Starc.

Starc may be the worst of the three quicks Australia is fielding at the moment, but he's a pretty damn fine bowler.

 

[stephen]

Oh and Starc vs Broad is a more interesting contest. Both would make an English team in a heartbeat but Broad is definitely better in England, while Starc is better overseas. Given they would be playing most of their tests in England a good case could be made for Broad. And the English selectors are probably more conservative than most when it comes to picking their seam attack, so I will concede that Broad would probably be picked for England ahead of Starc. But Starc would easily be the third bowler on the team sheet.

 

[Starfighter]

And even in South Africa, I'm pretty sure that selectors would pick Starc over Philander in the majority of circumstances because Starc offers something that Steyn and Rabada don't - he's a 150kph left armer. His erratic bowling might not be as numerically effective as Philander's, but it sure looks more impressive and honestly, that's what generally counts for selection if we're being realistic.

And if they did pick him over Philander they'd be wrong. Looking impressive =/= being impressive. Picking players because they look good rather than are good tends to produce worse results than picking players who are good.

 

[S.Kennedy]

I think this Aussie side will get hammered after this Ashes. Who do you play next, S. Africa? One-sided series against a garbage England flatters to deceive.

 

[stephen]

I think this Aussie side will get hammered after this Ashes. Who do you play next, S. Africa? One-sided series against a garbage England flatters to deceive.

It all depends on whether Warner or Smith go into god-mode over there or not. We have a competitive bowling attack, the difference is the batting. It could come down to the fact that we have de Kock and we have balls.

 

[TNT]

I think this Aussie side will get hammered after this Ashes. Who do you play next, S. Africa? One-sided series against a garbage England flatters to deceive.

That should give the poms some joy, oh yes they smashed us but the saffies beat em.

 

[stephen]

That should give the poms some joy, oh yes they smashed us but half our future side beat em.

FTFY. z

 

[S.Kennedy]

That should give the poms some joy, oh yes they smashed us but the saffies beat em.

Well yes, but I'm speaking objectively. That Australian batting is dog shite. The reason it flatters is England's is absolute horse manure. And one of these seamers will break down eventually.

 

[adub]

Khawaja I reckon will be important in SA. You'd think it should suit him there so if he can perform and take some of the pressure off Warner and Smith then we're in with a shot. The make up of the rest of the top 7 is anyone's guess but put money on a Marsh in there somewhere.

There's no point in Pommies coming in here and telling us we ain't that good. We can see we ain't that good. But we're **** loads better than England here this summer. Our 8-11 is settled and should be the backbone of our team for the next 3-4 years, we have the best bat in the world at 4 and a devastating opener who has finally started showing signs of performing in the Northern Hemisphere at least we have something to build on.

With a couple of pensioners as your opening bowlers and no one really standing up to replace them, no top order, confusion about your middle order, and some pretty obvious discipline issues England is in a sorry state.

 

[TNT]

Well yes, but I'm speaking objectively. That Australian batting is dog shite. The reason it flatters is England's is absolute horse manure. And one of these seamers will break down eventually.

And here I was thinking you were speaking sour grapes.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Indeed, but all that means is Australia have not been tested in the slightest. That is why I think you'll be hammered.

 

[TNT]

Indeed, but all that means is Australia have not been tested in the slightest. That is why I think you'll be hammered.

Well its not our fault that your batsmen Root, Cook and Bairstow were not capable of testing out bowlers or your bowlers Anderson, Broad and Woaks were not capable of testing our batsmen.

 

[S.Kennedy]

And here I was thinking you were speaking sour grapes.

I'd say the same about England - in fact I did say the same about England.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Well its not our fault that your batsmen Root, Cook and Bairstow were not capable of testing out bowlers or your bowlers Anderson, Broad and Woaks were not capable of testing our batsmen.

I never said it was anyone's fault. I just think you'll be hammered.

 

[StephenZA]

There is a bit of a circle here.... if we beat the Aussies here in SA in Feb, then we would have beat them home and away. Aus would have beaten Eng (assuming ashes continues in current manner!) but SA would have lost to Eng both home and away. I really wish and hope SA stop drawing and losing at home, keeps on putting an * next to their performances.

 

[TNT]

I never said it was anyone's fault. I just think you'll be hammered.

I would more inclined to think you mean "hope".

 

[S.Kennedy]

I'll say one thing. I believe Australia are closer to winning an away Ashes now, such is the disarray and uselessness with England. Even England's monopoly on English style swing and seam will erode by then, factoring in Jimmy/Broad aging (if not retiring). If I was you lot I'd ship two-three of your players to the county championship which is exactly what the Indians started doing last season.

 

[S.Kennedy]

I would more inclined to think you mean "hope".

I couldn't give a monkeys. I do not really do the toddler stuff.

 

[TNT]

I couldn't give a monkeys. I do not really do the toddler stuff.

Too late.

I think this Aussie side will get hammered after this Ashes. Who do you play next, S. Africa? One-sided series against a garbage England flatters to deceive.