England disintegrating like in 2013-14 Ashes - Johnson

[Spark]

Starc would only make the England attack because none of their 3rd seamers can hold down a spot. He wouldn't be within a whisper of challenging Anderson or Broad for their spots. You don't drop guys who average low-20s at home for literally anyone.

This is for much the same reason why many Australians would struggle to pick Anderson in an Australian side. Your bowlers are honed to your own conditions and it's hard to justify picking another bowler unless they have a history of doing really well in that country.

 

[StephenZA]

Don't disagree with that (except maybe the Morkel maybe - he offers way more than Morne), but will Steyn ever play Tests again? And if he does for how long? Apart from Rabada all the good SA quicks are on the wrong side of 32. When was the last time all four were actually available for a Test? Starc would play a lot lot more tests for SA right now than he would miss through selection.

On Steyn, hewas slated to play against Australia at the WACA a year ago. Even made it to stumps on day 1.

Not knocking a great, but none of us are getting any younger and he's only survived past the 1st test of a series once in the last 25 months and that was a 2-test series against NZ.

He broke/cracked his shoulder/arm again trying to rush himself back for the Aus series....

Since then had an operation and been on regime to strength and get back.... been bowling in local stuff and looking good. Definitely slated for Zim/India/Aus series... of course he could break down again but he is looking good and strong and on form.

Morkel coming back from minor injury otherwise looks like all of Steyn, Philander, Rabada and Morkel available for RSA from boxing day.

 

[Spark]

It's a real shame Steyn got injured because after that first horrible spell, he looked ****ing scary in that Test. Not that SA ended up needing him.

 

[adub]

fmd australia need an away tour. hurrrrr starc would make the 80s west indies hurrrrrrrr

but then what can one expect from benchmarks leftovers

So Starc isn't better than say Eldine Baptiste?

Comprehension skills a bit lacking eh?

 

[adub]

He broke/cracked his shoulder/arm again trying to rush himself back for the Aus series....

Since then had an operation and been on regime to strength and get back.... been bowling in local stuff and looking good. Definitely slated for Zim/India/Aus series... of course he could break down again but he is looking good and strong and on form.

Morkel coming back from minor injury otherwise looks like all of Steyn, Philander, Rabada and Morkel available for RSA from boxing day.

That's good. I prefer sides at full strength and a great like Steyn deserves to go out on his own terms not through injury. But you have to admit his luck with injuries in the last two years doesn't make that the most likely scenario does it.

 

[StephenZA]

That's good. I prefer sides at full strength and a great like Steyn deserves to go out on his own terms not through injury. But you have to admit his luck with injuries in the last two years doesn't make that the most likely scenario does it.

As I said he had a major shoulder injury, which he rushed back on, other than that he has been remarkably fit. He is getting older but I think if managed well, should get to (and possibly past) the WC (which is his goal). So I'm more than hopeful.

 

[Daemon]

Hahah Starc's taken a lot of crap wickets. He's bowled more junk than some bowlers have in their careers.

Rate him on his ceiling sure but at the moment the only times he's bowled really well other than the Lankan series can be counted on one hand. Saying he could make the SA full strength side or that he's better than Anderson/Broad is rubbish.

He's a pretty good bowler who has a tendency to bowl rubbish. Nothing more as of now.

 

[Burgey]

Hahah Starc's taken a lot of crap wickets. He's bowled more junk than some bowlers have in their careers.

Rate him on his ceiling sure but at the moment the only times he's bowled really well other than the Lankan series can be counted on one hand. Saying he could make the SA full strength side or that he's better than Anderson/Broad is rubbish.

He's a pretty good bowler who has a tendency to bowl rubbish. Nothing more as of now.

Basically Ian botham then.

 

[Woodster]

Starc would certainly get a gig in this English side if only because he represents an alternative style of bowler, something we don’t currently have. Ideally you want a well balanced attack with most bases covered, so deciding which team he would get in would, for me, depend on who was in the team already.

 

[adub]

Hahah Starc's taken a lot of crap wickets. He's bowled more junk than some bowlers have in their careers.

Rate him on his ceiling sure but at the moment the only times he's bowled really well other than the Lankan series can be counted on one hand. Saying he could make the SA full strength side or that he's better than Anderson/Broad is rubbish.

He's a pretty good bowler who has a tendency to bowl rubbish. Nothing more as of now.

And what's Morkel? Morkel is bog ordinary.

Ok someone might have gotten a bit over excited re Philander etc, but there seems to be a bit of straw manning going on here. I'm pretty sure no one is arguing that Starc is better than Roberts, Holding, Garner, Marshall, Croft, Walsh or Ambrose ( I certainly wasn't), or that he'd be first picked in any test side since 1877

The argument is if he's a more than handy guy to have in a three man attack.

Anderson/Broad/Starc is clearly better than Anderson/Broad/any pom they've picked in the last 5 years

The same applies to every other countries current bowling line up. Starc in there somewhere would make it clearly more potent.

The only quibble might be around SA and on the assumption that Steyn/Philander/Rabada are all available (which hasn't happened a lot in the last two years). Then I don't think too many aren't saying that Starc would be in a fight for 4th seamer with Morkel.

So please enough of the straw man garbage. Starc isn't the second coming of Christ, but he's a damn solid Test bowler who would struggle to get a game in very few Test teams in history.

 

[Spark]

Then I don't think too many are saying that Starc would be in a fight for 4th seamer with Morkel.

I am.

 

[adub]

Missed the n't Spark - corrected now.

We agree, just disagree on what the outcome would be perhaps.

 

[Flem274*]

So Starc isn't better than say Eldine Baptiste?

Comprehension skills a bit lacking eh?

because we know people write 'would make the 80s windies behind only a few of the best bowlers in history' to mean 'i was talking about the two minutes eldine baptiste was a thing' when they're busy circle jerking every bowler in their squad

 

[Spark]

I just don't think SA need another out-and-out strike bowler like Starc. Morkel, for his faults, is a much better defensive bowler than Starc and compliments their attack pretty well, even bearing in mind Starc's left arm-ness. And it's not like Morkel is a medium pacer.

 

[adub]

because we know people write [b>]would make the 80s windies behind only a few of the best bowlers in history'[/b] to mean 'i was talking about the two minutes eldine baptiste was a thing' when they're busy circle jerking every bowler in their squad

Yeah if someone had actually said that maybe you'd have a point...

Even some of the great WI sides would have been stronger with some Starceh when then couldn't play 4 out of the superstars.

Lucky no one said that eh?

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah if someone had actually said that maybe you'd have a point...



Lucky no one said that eh?

come on mate give it a rest, we both know what you were implying. youre doing a howsie here

 

[adub]

I just don't think SA need another out-and-out strike bowler like Starc. Morkel, for his faults, is a much better defensive bowler than Starc and compliments their attack pretty well, even bearing in mind Starc's left arm-ness. And it's not like Morkel is a medium pacer.

Do they really need a second defensive bowler if Philander is fit and firing and Steyn and Rabada are being Steyn and Rabada?

It's fair enough, there's no right or wrong answer on it, but I'd definitely go for Starc. The variety gets him over the line for mine. I think that is a better compliment to the other three.

 

[adub]

come on mate give it a rest, we both know what you were implying. youre doing a howsie here

Yeah nah. Like I said, comprehension ain't your thing is it.

I've already said today that Starc is only no.3 in Australia's line up, not better than Broad, and probably at best 4th in a full strength SA attack, so it would take a pretty huge feat of incomprehension to imagine I was implying that he would replace one of the WI greats, especially when I specifically said he wouldn't be there if they had 4 of those great available.

But congratulations, you managed it.

 

[adub]

Anyhoo, enough of this Starceh Malarkey...

The fact that this is a hideously weak England side for Australian conditions is papering over some pretty huge cracks. We have two players in the top 7 who can be confident of playing every test for the next 12 months. Our selection processes are contradictory and knee jerk and our Shield comp is a weak as I can remember.

But our current bowling attack is remarkably strong for all that. A couple of injuries and we're ****ed, but these four are a really really good unit.

I don't know if they'll be enough to overcome SA in SA, but we do have a ridiculous record there (and them here) so I wouldn't completely discount it.

It's just lucky we're heading there and not England or Asia next.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Australia don't tour Asia at all in the next 3-4 years I think. Big chance to get to number 1.