***Official*** West Indies Tour of the UK 2017

[Burgey]

I'm trying to understand the Root logic. So West Indies made 427 in the first innings. You're on 490-8. Lets set them 322 off 96 - considerably less, which they'll almost certainly get by just batting normally and not being bowled out. It's not even dangling a ****ing carrot. It's telling them they can bat normally for 90odd overs. With 360 off 90 at least they have to take some risks.

Doing it for the good of cricket, then time-wasting, hoping for bad light to cheat the West Indies out of the win.

What a ****ing crock. Root you're a ****ing idiot and lets hope he at least has the decency to recognise what an arrogant ****wit he's been in the post-mortem.

He didn't do it for the good of cricket. He did it because he didn't rate his opposition and was complacent. It will hopefully scar his decision-making for a long time just as declaring twice in the lesser tied test impacted TOTAB for many years afterwards.

Nevertheless, well done West Indies. What a phenomenal effort batting second.

To those earlier in the day comparing this test to India in Adelaide a few years ago, don't sully this effort by comparing it to that dross. WI bowled England out for 250 odd in the first dig. India took 12 wickets in the match and were never in the game until the fifth day.

This turn around by West Indies is phenomenal. One of the best ever. Neither side caught well and the declaration was generous but that batting is wonderful.

Root should probably be sacked as captain tbh. Was a terrible decision. I know Fertang said it wasn't a Sobers-like declaration, but I think it's right up there. Hopefully he's remembered for it forever.

 

[hazsa19]

The quotes coming from Root are just frighteningly stupid. England lost it in the first two days? England got back in control despite that. They lost it today and last night when they declared. 360 off 90 means West Indies *have* to take risks. You win just as many games because of that than you would because there's the extra 6 overs. Apart from the fact that West Indies don't even have to bat the full 96 to reach 322 anyway (and they had overs to spare)

To make such a declaration when you're 1-0 up and 900odd for 18 has just been scored is an amazing display of arrogance and stupidity.

Making mistakes is one thing, being too stupid to learn from them is far worse.
.

Well he's not gonna come out and say that it was all his fault is he? Not least because it would be disrespectful to his opposition, who played fantastically today.

Time will tell whether he learns from this. I've been impressed by most of what I've seen of his captaincy, from field placings to the use of his bowlers, tactics with his spin bowlers etc have all been refreshingly attacking compared with Cook. If he finds himself in this position again I would be very surprised if he is as aggressive with the declaration.

Also, others on here have complained about the coverage not giving Root enough stick for this decision. Fair enough, I too think the declaration was unnecessary, but some on here have gone to the extreme in the other direction. He's an inexperienced captain clearly trying to take England in a new positive direction, something I think he should be given credit for. I don't think he was complacent or disrespectful to Windies, but doing what he thought gave his side the best chance of victory. And let's not forget that if it weren't for some pathetic catching and more pretty average bowling, they may well have won or drawn this test.

 

[_Ed_]

Superb, West Indies. Congrats to them and their fans.

 

[Burgey]

Of course he should own it. That's called leadership. The rest of this mealy mouthed crap just detracts from him even further. Everyone knows the declaration cost the game, he should just say it did and move on.

 

[watson]

Let's not let Joe Root's declaration distract us from a great West Indian victory. For somewhere who grew up watching Greenidge and Richards score brilliant centuries, and yearns for those days again, this Test match has a really nice hopeful feel about it.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Is Shane Dowrich's two noughts a rare feat in Test cricket?:

1st inning: 0(1)
2nd Inning: 0*(0)

 

[Starfighter]

Let's not let Joe Root's declaration distract us from a great West Indian victory. For somewhere who grew up watching Greenidge and Richards score brilliant centuries, and yearns for those days again, this Test match has a really nice hopeful feel about it.

Yes, yes it does.

Anyone know what the dropped catch tally for the match was?

 

[hazsa19]

Of course he should own it. That's called leadership. The rest of this mealy mouthed crap just detracts from him even further. Everyone knows the declaration cost the game, he should just say it did and move on.

Well, there's more than one way of succeeding as a leader. I imagine he doesn't give a **** what a few fans on a forum think of his post match comments (quite right too). What does matter is what's being said internally. I hope they take lessons from this and would be very surprised if they don't.

 

[Burgey]

Yes, yes it does.

Anyone know what the dropped catch tally for the match was?

85 iirc

 

[Scaly piscine]

Well he's not gonna come out and say that it was all his fault is he? Not least because it would be disrespectful to his opposition, who played fantastically today.

Time will tell whether he learns from this. I've been impressed by most of what I've seen of his captaincy, from field placings to the use of his bowlers, tactics with his spin bowlers etc have all been refreshingly attacking compared with Cook. If he finds himself in this position again I would be very surprised if he is as aggressive with the declaration.

Also, others on here have complained about the coverage not giving Root enough stick for this decision. Fair enough, I too think the declaration was unnecessary, but some on here have gone to the extreme in the other direction. He's an inexperienced captain clearly trying to take England in a new positive direction, something I think he should be given credit for. I don't think he was complacent or disrespectful to Windies, but doing what he thought gave his side the best chance of victory. And let's not forget that if it weren't for some pathetic catching and more pretty average bowling, they may well have won or drawn this test.

I'm not really a fan of the whole inexperience excuse. Particularly as he was on his home ground this Test and still made a complete mess of it. His use of Stokes was utterly bizarre. If the ball's doing nothing then he's as good an option as any of the seamers if you're actually trying to take wickets. One spell from Stokes and nothing else in 90odd overs makes no sense given what was happening, how Woakes bowled etc. none of the part-timers bowled either. It was 55 overs before he swapped Moeen to the other bowling end.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I didn't like the declaration. The Windies were demoralised as the game was getting away from them quite quickly after being in a strong position and the declaration suddenly gave them a sniff again. 360 to 370 they probably wouldn't have fancied and would have batted with a different mind set.

 

[Beamer]

Also, does Westley get one more chance? He really isn't looking likely to make runs at the moment, Hales to come in for him maybe? Although Shai Hope was averaging 18 after 11 tests before this one, so you never know. I'm still not convinced by Stoneman (though 2 of 3 dismissals have been to very good balls) or Malan, but they've earned themselves at least another test

I've been thinking about this a lot since Shai's first innings century. I think there are two things to consider when you're working out how long to try out a new top or middle order batsman.

1) How old are they? Could giving them a run result in a decades worth of solid batsmanship if they succeed?
2) How technically proficient do they look? Are they getting out in the same way all the time?

Now with Shai he is both young and really looked the business even when only scoring 20s and 30s. He is a real batting technician and you can see that even when he doesn't get runs.

Westley I'm not so sure, he looks to have quite a big technical flaw in playing across the line and driving through the off-side. He'snot young either. I'd give him the final test to see if he can change things quickly and score some runs. If he fails then it's no Ashes for him.

Malan looks ok to me. Not sure he's ever going to make it big at test level as he looks very limited in his strokeplay other than his off and cover drives. Hasn't done anything wrong yet though and has shown he can battle in tough situations.

I think Stoneman looks the best of them so far. He looks like an impish opener to me and I haven't spotted anything obviously technically wrong.

Just my thoughts on England anyway. Maybe it's the rum talking but thought I'd contribute something not just solely about Windies for once. Now I'll get back to celebrating, I'll share my thoughts on today's play tomorrow.

 

[Nate]

Well done West Indies - I did not expect this at all, at any stage!

 

[mr_mister]

Yeah despite how well they played nearly the entire test, a lot of people gave them no chance of winning until the final hour when it suddenly seemed a certainty

 

[cnerd123]

wtf happened here


Seeing the Windies win is always so conflicting. On the one hand, it's awesome. On the other hand, the WICB is just going to spin this into evidence that the current situation in WI Cricket is just fine and will take the credit for identifying good young talent and developing the team. All the shambolicness of the last few years, and even the previous test, will be forgiven, and the West Indies will probably continue to be rubbish for years to come. We've had plenty of false dawns like this. Things aren't going to change.

But yea, pretty awesome.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

@*****, it ain't WICB anymore...they're now CWI

Just FYI

 

[mr_mister]

Well the bowling still needs a lot of help but they've now identified a few batting strengths *****

 

[Starfighter]

A few stupid articles being written about how this is supposedly disastrous for the Ashes.


Please, just stop it.

 

[DanJamson]

Well played Windies.

England's catching was beyond diabolical.

 

[cnerd123]

Well the bowling still needs a lot of help but they've now identified a few batting strengths *****

We've seen this before though, haven't we? It's been this way since the early 2000s. They keep identifying talented new players who put in some good performances, maybe win them an unlikely match, we get all excited that things are back on track, but those players end up fading away, only to be replaced with another bunch of talented promising new players, and another false dawn emerges.

If we trace the dispute between the board and the players to around 2005, and use that as the starting point from where West Indies cricket began to crumble...

Runako Morton
Denesh Ramdin
Darren Sammy
Suliemen Benn
Lendl Simmons
Kemar Roach
Adrian Barath
Ravi Rampaul
Shane Shillingford
Darren Bravo
Andre Russel
Devendra Bishoo
Kraigg Braithwaite
Kirk Edwards
Kieran Powell
Shannon Gabriel

And now we have Blackwood, Holder, Hope(s), Joeseph and Chase

It's just been a production line of talented players. The talent is there. It's why they keep putting in these odd great performances. But it's just so shambolically run it becomes hard to be excited.