OverratedSanity
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Bafflingly, a lot of people have been defending the decision. This isn't even hindsight from me... I thought it was dumb even at the time.
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***Official*** West Indies Tour of the UK 2017
- Thread starter SillyCowCorner1
- Start date
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
I doubt whether anyone has a clue who should bat at 3. Maybe Robson coming in at first drop? But I wouldn't strongly argue his case.
TRJ for Woakes should be a given, especially as it's being played at Lord's. Woakes will be fine when he's fit.
SillyCowCorner1
Moooo
If Shannon didn't threw it away against Pakistan, then it would be fair to say that we have two entrants into best team inning of the year.
MW1304
Cricketer Of The Year
This won't happen.
What I am happy about is that the endless bagging of the West Indies and the smug, hypocritical way in which sections of the English media (and fans) talked about how they weren't worthy of a three-match series against this godly, never-embarrassing nation will **** off for a bit.
flibbertyjibber
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Well done West Indies.
**** off Root you arrogant prick.
**** off Root you arrogant prick.
Burner
International Regular
Haha, it's interesting that outside of this forum, Root's not receiving any flak at all. It's total BS that England lost the game in the first two days. They lost it today when they weren't able to skittle Windies, which happened as a result of the declaration. Root SHOULD cop some flak.
WindieWeathers
International Regular
I'M STUNNED GUYS!!...UTTERLY STUNNED. But you know what? I remember when the fierce criticism was in fever pitch after the first test. People mocked us, said we were finished, said we didn't belong on the same pitch as England etc. We were virtually the laughing stock of the game by fans and media alike. And then i thought back to historic moments in West Indies cricket!!.."we'll make them grovel" in the 80s, "West indies are also rans, we should beat them easily" by an England cricket board member before our series against them in 2015, "West indies are cheaters" at the u19 world cup 2016, "West Indies have no brains", by a commentator before the last t20 world cup. And It entered my mind that everytime people have mocked us, we've usually come out swinging. But never did I imagin that we'd turn things around to this extent and actually win the test.
Ratings
Brathwaite= I believe he has the potential to be the next Chanderpaul for us. He went through a very dry spell lately but to come out of the other side like this and help win us a game in this fashion shows not only his class, but his mental strength aswell. Let's remember, in the practice matches he was getting single figures and even a few ducks. Some may have been wondering if we might have a big decision to make with him because he also struggled against Pakistan. But as they say "class is perminant", and after this I think he could be moving into the world class conversation now when you consider what he did away to Pakistan aswell (the first batsman to carry his bat through both innings in a test) which also resulted in an epic win.
Powell= Has been a weak link and dropped a vital catch in the first innings. Unless he transforms himself in the next test, I don't think he has a long future with the side tbh. Although I guess much will depend on who steps up in our first class competition when it starts late October. If someone does, then he'll be gone I think.
Kyle Hope= Really unlucky with the way he got out in the second digg. And he's only new to the scene so perhaps we shouldn't be too quick to judge him. The fact is though he's just a stand-in for this series, regardless of what he does, as Darren Bravo is expected to be back by the time we play the next test series.
Shai Hope= Remarkable, utterly remarkable. I spoke about wanting some of our young talent to at least stand up and show they can compete at this level, but young Shai has absolutely blown the door down in that department. The calmness and maturity he shows in both innings just beggers belief. And not only did he have all the shots in the book, he was so intelligent with the way he played certain bowlers and the way he manipulated the field. I've seen Darren Bravo play some special knocks, away in NZ when he scored a double ton to save the game, away in Pakistan in a losing effort and also away in Australia, but these two knocks were right up there. I hope this will get him an opportunity to get a few stints in county cricket like the likes of Williamson got so he can continue his development. At 23 this is very impressive and we can only hope he gets better and better.
Chase= He came into this series as our hottest batsman and I still think he'll get even better with the bat. He hasn't showed his true class yet but his knock in the second innings did help calm things a little and also his bowling in the second innings was very valuable too. He's only young himself and I look forward to seeing him develop aswell.
Blackwood= "Jermaine is Jermaine" as Shai said yesterday
. The lad is absolutely fearless. And tbh when you include his great knock in the first innings of the first test then can anyone say he hasn't been fabulous thus far? Again, he's just 25 and I hope this confidence will take him to the next level too. He was dropped against Pakistan and right now that looks like a very foolish decision.
Dowrich= He hasn't been good but he too is only 25 so perhaps patience needs to be taken with young Shane. He does have a few people breathing down his neck for his position though but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. When he applies himself properly he is a class act but those dropped catches and stuff doesn't do him any favours. I still have faith in him but he needs to step up with the bat now like he has in the past.
Holder= A great game from Jason with both bat and ball. His bowling has vastly improved since Roddy Estwick became our bowling coach, and we all know how effective he can be down the order with the bat. His captaincy can still be improved, but this win will feel sweet for the young man I'm sure. At first many felt he was just "another Sammy", but he's proving that theory wrong and long may it continue.
Bishoo= He just wasn't in the game much apart from the few wickets he got. I like Bishy but there is no point picking him if the coach and captain feel he bowls too many four balls. Either have faith in the guy, or pick someone else in the next series, it's that simple.
Roach= Was electric in the first innings and rediscovered the form that, imo, made him a world class pacer a few years ago before injuries struck. How many catches were dropped off him in this game? Three or four? Just shocking. He tired in the second digg but welcome back Kemar!!..we've missed you bro.
Gabriel= I think his inclusion changed everything tbh. Gabriel was a villain after what he done in the last test against Pakistan. But it cannot be denied that he's completely turned around his fortunes over the last eighteen months or so. His test bowling average was in the high 30s for most of his early career but in recent times he's been averaging 23. He just gives us that pace and fire which compliments Roach and Holder so well. And I'm proud of the way the guy has come back from the heartbreak in that test I mentioned already.
Overall this is a great day for our cricket and it continues our new habit of winning a test in a series over the last three or so series we've played. For a young side, knowing you can win games is important. We just have to try and continue to develop as a team and insure that we learn from our mistakes. The cold, hard fact is even though we won we tried hard to hand it to England at times. Seven dropped catches is simply disgusting and needs to be improved upon immediatly. What happens at Lords remains to be seen. England will be the favourites no doubt but if we can continue to fight then maybe we can dream some more. I'm just so proud of the guys and if we can add a little more quality to this side then I'm hopeful that we will be able to compete with the better sides on a more regular basis. And lastly big up to Stewert Law and his staff...they've worked miracles to get the guys up after the big defeat in Birmingham and they deserve all the credit in the world. If Law can trully turn this grand old ship around, then his stock will simply sky rocket into orbit.
RALLY WINDIES!!!..RALLY!!.
Ratings
Brathwaite= I believe he has the potential to be the next Chanderpaul for us. He went through a very dry spell lately but to come out of the other side like this and help win us a game in this fashion shows not only his class, but his mental strength aswell. Let's remember, in the practice matches he was getting single figures and even a few ducks. Some may have been wondering if we might have a big decision to make with him because he also struggled against Pakistan. But as they say "class is perminant", and after this I think he could be moving into the world class conversation now when you consider what he did away to Pakistan aswell (the first batsman to carry his bat through both innings in a test) which also resulted in an epic win.
Powell= Has been a weak link and dropped a vital catch in the first innings. Unless he transforms himself in the next test, I don't think he has a long future with the side tbh. Although I guess much will depend on who steps up in our first class competition when it starts late October. If someone does, then he'll be gone I think.
Kyle Hope= Really unlucky with the way he got out in the second digg. And he's only new to the scene so perhaps we shouldn't be too quick to judge him. The fact is though he's just a stand-in for this series, regardless of what he does, as Darren Bravo is expected to be back by the time we play the next test series.
Shai Hope= Remarkable, utterly remarkable. I spoke about wanting some of our young talent to at least stand up and show they can compete at this level, but young Shai has absolutely blown the door down in that department. The calmness and maturity he shows in both innings just beggers belief. And not only did he have all the shots in the book, he was so intelligent with the way he played certain bowlers and the way he manipulated the field. I've seen Darren Bravo play some special knocks, away in NZ when he scored a double ton to save the game, away in Pakistan in a losing effort and also away in Australia, but these two knocks were right up there. I hope this will get him an opportunity to get a few stints in county cricket like the likes of Williamson got so he can continue his development. At 23 this is very impressive and we can only hope he gets better and better.
Chase= He came into this series as our hottest batsman and I still think he'll get even better with the bat. He hasn't showed his true class yet but his knock in the second innings did help calm things a little and also his bowling in the second innings was very valuable too. He's only young himself and I look forward to seeing him develop aswell.
Blackwood= "Jermaine is Jermaine" as Shai said yesterday
. The lad is absolutely fearless. And tbh when you include his great knock in the first innings of the first test then can anyone say he hasn't been fabulous thus far? Again, he's just 25 and I hope this confidence will take him to the next level too. He was dropped against Pakistan and right now that looks like a very foolish decision.Dowrich= He hasn't been good but he too is only 25 so perhaps patience needs to be taken with young Shane. He does have a few people breathing down his neck for his position though but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. When he applies himself properly he is a class act but those dropped catches and stuff doesn't do him any favours. I still have faith in him but he needs to step up with the bat now like he has in the past.
Holder= A great game from Jason with both bat and ball. His bowling has vastly improved since Roddy Estwick became our bowling coach, and we all know how effective he can be down the order with the bat. His captaincy can still be improved, but this win will feel sweet for the young man I'm sure. At first many felt he was just "another Sammy", but he's proving that theory wrong and long may it continue.
Bishoo= He just wasn't in the game much apart from the few wickets he got. I like Bishy but there is no point picking him if the coach and captain feel he bowls too many four balls. Either have faith in the guy, or pick someone else in the next series, it's that simple.
Roach= Was electric in the first innings and rediscovered the form that, imo, made him a world class pacer a few years ago before injuries struck. How many catches were dropped off him in this game? Three or four? Just shocking. He tired in the second digg but welcome back Kemar!!..we've missed you bro.
Gabriel= I think his inclusion changed everything tbh. Gabriel was a villain after what he done in the last test against Pakistan. But it cannot be denied that he's completely turned around his fortunes over the last eighteen months or so. His test bowling average was in the high 30s for most of his early career but in recent times he's been averaging 23. He just gives us that pace and fire which compliments Roach and Holder so well. And I'm proud of the way the guy has come back from the heartbreak in that test I mentioned already.
Overall this is a great day for our cricket and it continues our new habit of winning a test in a series over the last three or so series we've played. For a young side, knowing you can win games is important. We just have to try and continue to develop as a team and insure that we learn from our mistakes. The cold, hard fact is even though we won we tried hard to hand it to England at times. Seven dropped catches is simply disgusting and needs to be improved upon immediatly. What happens at Lords remains to be seen. England will be the favourites no doubt but if we can continue to fight then maybe we can dream some more. I'm just so proud of the guys and if we can add a little more quality to this side then I'm hopeful that we will be able to compete with the better sides on a more regular basis. And lastly big up to Stewert Law and his staff...they've worked miracles to get the guys up after the big defeat in Birmingham and they deserve all the credit in the world. If Law can trully turn this grand old ship around, then his stock will simply sky rocket into orbit.
RALLY WINDIES!!!..RALLY!!.
mackembhoy
International Regular
How many has there been?
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
And now they're showing Sam Billings keeping masterclass, lol.
Stop this and show me the Brathwaite-Hope batting masterclass.
srbhkshk
International Captain
There have never been 2 200+ partnerships from the same pair in the same game.
For 200+ and 100+ (ordered for total partnership runs)
Burns & Warner vs NZ (Brisbane, 2015)
Miandad & Mushtaq vs NZ (Karachi, 1976)
Brathwaite & Hope vs Eng (Leeds, 2017)
Yousuf & Younis vs Ind (Faisalabad, 2006)
Walcott & Weeks vs Aus (Port of Spain, 1955)
Azhar & Younis vs Aus (Abu Dhabi, 2014)
Amla & Kallis vs Pak (Dubai, 2010)
TestMatch
U19 Cricketer
Ah, that cozy feeling when WindieWeathers makes one of his "summation" posts.
Well, he does cite Shiv as a role model, and he does, like Shiv, have a bowling machine in his back yard (a rarity in the West Indies). I think he's now my favorite of this new batch of players. Seems to be hardworking, humble, determined and skilled.
He seems to have more shots than Darren Bravo, who's primarily an off side player (off drives and occasional lofty forward drives). Shai looks better at working singles than Bravo as well. Will be interesting to see how his career progresses.
Yeah, I can't envision WI bowling sides out without him. He's wonderfully fast and has learnt control over the past 18 months. But he tires easily and breaks down easily. The Windies desperately need to find another of his calibre fast.
Last edited:
Gob
International Coach
Oh noI'M STUNNED GUYS!!...UTTERLY STUNNED. But you know what? I remember when the fierce criticism was in fever pitch after the first test. People mocked us, said we were finished, said we didn't belong on the same pitch as England etc. We were virtually the laughing stock of the game by fans and media alike. And then i thought back to historic moments in West Indies cricket!!.."we'll make them grovel" in the 80s, "West indies are also rans, we should beat them easily" by an England cricket board member before our series against them in 2015, "West indies are cheaters" at the u19 world cup 2016, "West Indies have no brains", by a commentator before the last t20 world cup. And It entered my mind that everytime people have mocked us, we've usually come out swinging. But never did I imagin that we'd turn things around to this extent and actually win the test.
Ratings
Brathwaite= I believe he has the potential to be the next Chanderpaul for us. He went through a very dry spell lately but to come out of the other side like this and help win us a game in this fashion shows not only his class, but his mental strength aswell. Let's remember, in the practice matches he was getting single figures and even a few ducks. Some may have been wondering if we might have a big decision to make with him because he also struggled against Pakistan. But as they say "class is perminant", and after this I think he could be moving into the world class conversation now when you consider what he did away to Pakistan aswell (the first batsman to carry his bat through both innings in a test) which also resulted in an epic win.
Powell= Has been a weak link and dropped a vital catch in the first innings. Unless he transforms himself in the next test, I don't think he has a long future with the side tbh. Although I guess much will depend on who steps up in our first class competition when it starts late October. If someone does, then he'll be gone I think.
Kyle Hope= Really unlucky with the way he got out in the second digg. And he's only new to the scene so perhaps we shouldn't be too quick to judge him. The fact is though he's just a stand-in for this series, regardless of what he does, as Darren Bravo is expected to be back by the time we play the next test series.
Shai Hope= Remarkable, utterly remarkable. I spoke about wanting some of our young talent to at least stand up and show they can compete at this level, but young Shai has absolutely blown the door down in that department. The calmness and maturity he shows in both innings just beggers belief. And not only did he have all the shots in the book, he was so intelligent with the way he played certain bowlers and the way he manipulated the field. I've seen Darren Bravo play some special knocks, away in NZ when he scored a double ton to save the game, away in Pakistan in a losing effort and also away in Australia, but these two knocks were right up there. I hope this will get him an opportunity to get a few stints in county cricket like the likes of Williamson got so he can continue his development. At 23 this is very impressive and we can only hope he gets better and better.
Chase= He came into this series as our hottest batsman and I still think he'll get even better with the bat. He hasn't showed his true class yet but his knock in the second innings did help calm things a little and also his bowling in the second innings was very valuable too. He's only young himself and I look forward to seeing him develop aswell.
Blackwood= "Jermaine is Jermaine" as Shai said yesterday
Dowrich= He hasn't been good but he too is only 25 so perhaps patience needs to be taken with young Shane. He does have a few people breathing down his neck for his position though but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. When he applies himself properly he is a class act but those dropped catches and stuff doesn't do him any favours. I still have faith in him but he needs to step up with the bat now like he has in the past.
Holder= A great game from Jason with both bat and ball. His bowling has vastly improved since Roddy Estwick became our bowling coach, and we all know how effective he can be down the order with the bat. His captaincy can still be improved, but this win will feel sweet for the young man I'm sure. At first many felt he was just "another Sammy", but he's proving that theory wrong and long may it continue.
Bishoo= He just wasn't in the game much apart from the few wickets he got. I like Bishy but there is no point picking him if the coach and captain feel he bowls too many four balls. Either have faith in the guy, or pick someone else in the next series, it's that simple.
Roach= Was electric in the first innings and rediscovered the form that, imo, made him a world class pacer a few years ago before injuries struck. How many catches were dropped off him in this game? Three or four? Just shocking. He tired in the second digg but welcome back Kemar!!..we've missed you bro.
Gabriel= I think his inclusion changed everything tbh. Gabriel was a villain after what he done in the last test against Pakistan. But it cannot be denied that he's completely turned around his fortunes over the last eighteen months or so. His test bowling average was in the high 30s for most of his early career but in recent times he's been averaging 23. He just gives us that pace and fire which compliments Roach and Holder so well. And I'm proud of the way the guy has come back from the heartbreak in that test I mentioned already.
Overall this is a great day for our cricket and it continues our new habit of winning a test in a series over the last three or so series we've played. For a young side, knowing you can win games is important. We just have to try and continue to develop as a team and insure that we learn from our mistakes. The cold, hard fact is even though we won we tried hard to hand it to England at times. Seven dropped catches is simply disgusting and needs to be improved upon immediatly. What happens at Lords remains to be seen. England will be the favourites no doubt but if we can continue to fight then maybe we can dream some more. I'm just so proud of the guys and if we can add a little more quality to this side then I'm hopeful that we will be able to compete with the better sides on a more regular basis. And lastly big up to Stewert Law and his staff...they've worked miracles to get the guys up after the big defeat in Birmingham and they deserve all the credit in the world. If Law can trully turn this grand old ship around, then his stock will simply sky rocket into orbit.
RALLY WINDIES!!!..RALLY!!.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Ah, so Root joins the Garry Sobers / David Gower club of making a sporting declaration and losing.
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
Generally any declaration in a losing cause can be criticized. In that sense, Root can be criticized. But Cook's dropped catches were pathetic. Moeen Ali's bowling was 2nd grade (as is expected from a batting all-rounder like him). Woakes' bowling was terrible.
And West Indies batting was just too good - too too good.
And West Indies batting was just too good - too too good.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Oh, and good to see there is hope personified for the west indies.
GotSpin
Hall of Fame Member
Nah , let him have this one. To have faith in the Windies over many years must take a serious psychological toll
Anyway, I'm seriously impressed they pulled this off. Thought there was a decent chance at 2/100 odd when I fell asleep, but we've seen so many Windies collapses over the years.