***Official*** England in India 2016/17

[Groundking]

Well Jennings and Gubbins were the best bats in the championship this year.

Both are in the UAE

I thought they were both middle order bats?

 

[mackembhoy]

We have been through this Borthwick thing a million times but have always said I would not begrudge him selection but the way people talk about him on here makes him sound like Bradman 'monstrous' number of runs, has he ever averaged over 50 for a season? It would have been perfectly reasonable to pick him at the start of our summer but there are also undeniably players that have had better seasons than him.

Averaging over 50 playing half your games at CLS good one mate.

This is the first season it's been anything other than a bowlers paradise. It helped us see Borthwick in the first half of the season averaging over 80.

We then went for someone who averaged in the 20s in 2015 in Vince and Ballance who hit one ton averaging low 30s in 2016

It affected him along with surreys advances and he looked shot in the second half.

The much more batting friendly wicket has helped Keats finally solidify himself as a batsman after looking ropey in previous seasons.

 

[mackembhoy]

I thought they were both middle order bats?

No

 

[Dan]

I'd probably look at something like this:

1. Cook
2. Root
3. Borthwick (6)
4. Hildreth/Malan
5. Ali (5)
6. Stokes (3)
7. Bairstow +
8. Buttler
9. Woakes (2)
10. Rashid (4)
11. Anderson (1)

12. Hildreth/Malan
13. Ansari
14. Finn
15. Ball
16. Leach
17. Trego (no real need for a 17th tbh)

In: Hildreth, Malan, Borthwick, Leach, Trego
Out: Hameed, Duckett, Ballance, Batty, Broad

 

[theegyptian]

I know the selectors are obviously to blame for Root playing an awful shot in the first innings, Cook playing an awful shot in the first innings, Moeen playing an awful shot in the first innings and Stokes playing an awful shot in the first innings.

They have made some errors with Ansari and Batty for sure but seriously doubt them being on tour has made the slightest bit of difference, pretty much all of us were supportive of Duckett being picked, can't remember anyone saying he could no play spin.

If anything Duckett was picked because of his play of spin which sounds silly now. He's an aggresive player of spin with good offensive options. Unfortunately he just wasn't at all solid defensively. As soon as Ashwin put a few fielders back on the boundary and kept a few in close he couldn't survive. You saw in the second innings in Dhaka where on a massively turning wicket he'd played a good offensive innings when apart from Cook the rest of the batting failed. I don't think he was done any favours by dropping down to 4 in the batting order. He scored all his runs for Northants as an opener so expecting a 22 year old to start scoring loads of runs at 4 was a tough ask.

How many lions and senior tours have Bairstow and Stokes needed to be serviceable cricketers in Asia? They have had a lot. And these are two of the most talented cricketers we have. They've only just started to put it together. Duckett and Hameed have maybe had one u19s ODI series each in Asia. I can remember Kohli swanning around the boundary at Edgbaston as drinks carrier in 2011 as a 22 year old whilst the rest of the batting failed, and then he still failed 3 years later in England. Duckett didn't get that apprenticeship. He didn't get the opportunity to work on his game in foreign condiions. He was stuck straight in on some massive turners in Bangladesh. Even Hameed got a tour to work on his game and get adjusted. I said before the squads were selected that I'd take one of Duckett or Hameed and one more experienced bat. 50% success rate on a couple of roookies isn't bad though although it leaves them in a bad position now with no experienced backup bat. If Duckett takes the right things from the tour and works hard on his game I still think he can make it.

People just like whining. I bet most of the people have never even seen Leach or Borthwick or Gubbins or whoever play in first class cricket. People were certainly surprised with the way Duckett batted having called for his selection.

 

[mackembhoy]

It will be one of those two, I know both have only one good season to their name but that is the situation we are in.

Same with Hameed and Duckett. But the latter of those has barely played against spin.

Seen Dobell saying the top wicket taking spinner in division 2 last year took 23 wickets.

We picked Vince off even less than one good season. We picked him cos he played well in white ball cricket in the UAE, the media bigged him up as a right handed Brian Lara and the selectors said we'll have some of that.

 

[mackembhoy]

If anything Duckett was picked because of his play of spin which sounds silly now. He's an aggresive player of spin with good offensive options. Unfortunately he just wasn't at all solid defensively. As soon as Ashwin put a few fielders back on the boundary and kept a few in close he couldn't survive. You saw in the second innings in Dhaka where on a massively turning wicket he'd played a good offensive innings when apart from Cook the rest of the batting failed. I don't think he was done any favours by dropping down to 4 in the batting order. He scored all his runs for Northants as an opener so expecting a 22 year old to start scoring loads of runs at 4 was a tough ask.

How many lions and senior tours have Bairstow and Stokes needed to be serviceable cricketers in Asia? They have had a lot. And these are two of the most talented cricketers we have. They've only just started to put it together. Duckett and Hameed have maybe had one u19s ODI series each in Asia. I can remember Kohli swanning around the boundary at Edgbaston as drinks carrier in 2011 as a 22 year old whilst the rest of the batting failed, and then he still failed 3 years later in England. Duckett didn't get that apprenticeship. He didn't get the opportunity to work on his game in foreign condiions. He was stuck straight in on some massive turners in Bangladesh. Even Hameed got a tour to work on his game and get adjusted. I said before the squads were selected that I'd take one of Duckett or Hameed and one more experienced bat. 50% success rate on a couple of roookies isn't bad though although it leaves them in a bad position now with no experienced backup bat. If Duckett takes the right things from the tour and works hard on his game I still think he can make it.

People just like whining. I bet most of the people have never even seen Leach or Borthwick or Gubbins or whoever play in first class cricket. People were certainly surprised with the way Duckett batted having called for his selection.

In white ball cricket aye.

 

[theegyptian]

In white ball cricket aye.

Duckett scored 390 off 396 balls for three times out this past year in championship cricket.

 

[theegyptian]

I think England were slightly forced into the Duckett and Hameed selection through the lack of lions first class cricket last winter and through the failings of the recent tryouts (Hales, Lyth, Ballance, Vince, etc). Ideally you wouldn't have taken both. After Duckett's struggles the selectors are going to be even more cautious about picking from div 2.

 

[mackembhoy]

Duckett scored 390 off 396 balls for three times out this past year in championship cricket.

In a division where Danny Briggs is the best spinner

Well is it was Rob Keogh but he can't face his team mate.

Dobells bit

"It was always asking a lot of Duckett to cope with the spin on this tour. Spin plays a peripheral part in the lower division of the County Championship - only one spinner in the entire division managed even 25 wickets in 2016 and that was his Northants team-mate, Rob Keogh - and he will never have experienced conditions like this. Or bowlers so adept at exploiting them."

 

[harsh.ag]

Think I would go for this side for the 4th test given Hameed is unavailable:

Cook
Jennings
Root
Gubbins
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Woakes
Rashid
Broad/Anderson
Leach

 

[theegyptian]

In a division where Danny Briggs is the best spinner

No doubt the standard isn't great.

However Jeetan is the best spinner in div 1 and he's been smashed all over by India and everyone else in his test career. Batty took 7 wickets in 9 overs in the first innings of a match at Taunton this year. Standard between county cricket and test cricket is massive regardless of the division. It ain't easy been a good international cricketer. You can't just magic up good international cricketers, especially sticking them straight into foreign tours against possibly the best team in the world.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Thoughts :

- Seriously, it's time to admit Jadeja isn't a hack. Neither is he totally reliant on minefields. This was not a square turner by any means and he still produced the goods with the ball. The delivery to get Root was about as un-Jadeja as a wicket can get. He tossed it up beautifully and drew him into a drive. He's not all darts, folks.

- Rahane needs runs. And a net session with vvs /Ganguly /Dravid /sachin/sehwag. Not picking a googly like that... Yeesh.

- Toss whiners please piss off. We've been saying for ages that the toss isn't as big an advantage as you make it out to be and yet you guys just refuse to admit it.

- Stokes is a prick, but damn he's good. Already as many 5fers as Flintoff got his entire career and he seems to have the game (both batting and bowling) which can succeed anywhere. Amazing talent.

- Hameed is awesome. Really disappointed for the guy.

- Don't think Cook has been that great this series. I know it sounds weird, because he got a hundred, but his innings so far have had a loads of luck and he's not looked half as solid as he did back in 2012. Cue him scoring two daddy hundreds in the next two tests.

- "Still waiting for bole trekking Marayyye". Keep Kumar up in the third umpires box please,its hilarious. Him almost screwing up a DRS referral a definite highlight.

And we really need to learn to ****ing catch ffs.

 

[vcs]

I think if both teams had batted well in this game, this pitch would have produced a draw like Rajkot. Then again, you could say that about every cricket match ever played and avoid giving credit to the bowlers, so dunno. But from what little I watched during my lunch break today, the pitch seemed to be behaving quite normally when Hameed and Woakes were batting.

 

[Shri]

- "Still waiting for bole trekking Marayyye". Keep Kumar up in the third umpires box please,its hilarious. Him almost screwing up a DRS referral a definite highlight.

 

[Daemon]

It started off as a day 4ish sort of wicket but then just seemed to remain that way throughout the game.

 

[Shri]

Lol, no way. It was a pitch with decent bounce and slight turn, which was neither too sharp nor too slow. It didn't break down though.

 

[Daemon]

Didn't mean an Indian day 4, ftr. There was a bit of iffy bounce now and then even on Day 1.

 

[honestbharani]

You are confusing bounce issues due to moisture and dampness of areas of the pitch to wear and tear, Daemon.

 

[Furball]

This is going to end up like the last time England went to the UAE - a well deserved, convincing victory for the home side but England not a million miles away from a completely different result.

Lack of 1st innings runs the key here. Unless the pitch is a total minefield you can't score 300 first up in Asia and expect anything other than a complete doing.