Dhoni Vs Gilchrist in ODIs.

[viriya]

Who'd have thought that would be the case batting No 7 in an ATG team??

The thing is mate he would come in when Aus were in a strong position, and within an hour he would put them into an unbeatable one...........that was his MO. You can't hold what the top 6 contributed before him against him.

I think to call Adam Gilchrist overrated in tests is an absolute nonsense, but since you have I'd be interested to hear what keeper/batsmen you would rate above him??

Imo saying he benefited from it. Without being able to come in with the team in such a strong position with bowlers tired most of the times he would probably average less and have a lower strike rate.

I would pick Sanga and AB over him.

 

[cnerd123]

Does Gilly have a bollywood movie about his life story?

No?

I think that settles it

 

[Victor Ian]

A bit late to the table, but what the heck.

A billion fans is a benefit, not a hindrance. Everyone knows that the fans help you perform better. How many times have you heard sportsmen say how their cheering fans willed them on to bigger things. Opposition complain that the fans made the atmosphere stifling to their performances. Indian fans are not their 'hoping' Dhoni can mess up so they can burn things and go to anarchy. Instead the palpable feeling in the air is of success for him. This shows that Gilly batted with a hugely depleted can of goodwill and so is, blaa blaa blaa, better.

The effigy argument is flawed too. That someone might burn my house down is an even greater motivation to keep your wits about you. No throwing a wicket away having a bash at that unlikely 4th 6 in the over. No - keep your head, and the fire bugs at bay, to boot.
Those two 50's Gilly made would also have been hundreds, had he had menacing looking individuals in the crowd.

So what we have, is that Dhoni was greatly aided by public goodwill AND has a constant reminder each ball to stay in. Dhoni is a finisher because the only way to keep his house unlit is to keep the firebugs at the ground. Dhoni, in Australia, wouldn't make shield cricket. I'm serious.

 

[Daemon]

Dhoni's contemporaries also happen to be some of the finest ODI batsmen to have played the game. I'm not having it that a lineup of Sehwag-Tendulkar-Gambhir-Kohli-Yuvraj-Dhoni is filled with hacks. Of those 6 names 3 of them are in the discussion for top 10 of all time, the other 3 have all had periods where they were genuinely world class and would have walked into any ODI lineup.

I've acknowledged this amd explained it already. Gilchrist opens and the ATG order behind him doesn't change, while the ATG order ahead of Dhoni doesn't always perform. I also mentioned the pressure of having to put up big totals all the time because of the bowling attack.

Regardless, I don't think pressure is what separates the two anyways. Dhoni was just better at scoring runs, end of.

 

[viriya]

I've acknowledged this amd explained it already. Gilchrist opens and the ATG order behind him doesn't change, while the ATG order ahead of Dhoni doesn't always perform. I also mentioned the pressure of having to put up big totals all the time because of the bowling attack.

Regardless, I don't think pressure is what separates the two anyways. Dhoni was just better at scoring runs, end of.

Why is Gilchrist opening in an ATG XI necessarily the best option? Wouldn't Sachin with Sanath or Sehwag be just as good? Dhoni coming into finish with AB sounds a lot better imo.

 

[Victor Ian]

On pure numbers, Gilly equals Sewag, but you get a much better keeper than Dhoni. Remember - Gilly was a great keeper (except for the very end). Sanath is not as good as Sehwag.
When you discard Dhoni you can bring in Bevan. Sure Dhoni has an average like Bevan, but this is only for those who stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that batting has become markedly easier in ODI cricket since the 90's. Bevan would be averaging 60 odd nowadays and at a faster scoring rate, possibly even faster than Dhoni, when you factor in the recent acclerations in this area. He'd be scoring at least as quick as Dhoni, but making larger scores.

So take Gilly at the start - and get Bevan to finish. Dhoni isn't needed.

Or you can bring in Dhoni - get weaker keeping, lose Bevan and replace Gilly with....who? Who is as markedly better than Gilly as Bevo is to Dhoni?

When Gilly works, it is downhill sking for everyone after him. When Dhoni works, Bevan would have worked better.

 

[the big bambino]

Why evaluate player careers over a few matches? Random and irrelevant.

Random winning the games that matter?

Irrelevant winning the grand final?

Sure ...

 

[the big bambino]

Who'd have thought that would be the case batting No 7 in an ATG team??

The thing is mate he would come in when Aus were in a strong position, and within an hour he would put them into an unbeatable one...........that was his MO. You can't hold what the top 6 contributed before him against him.

I think to call Adam Gilchrist overrated in tests is an absolute nonsense, but since you have I'd be interested to hear what keeper/batsmen you would rate above him??

My recollection was that he was better then that. It is completely irrelevant if he came in at 5/257 or whatever viriya thinks. It matters in relation to what the opposition scored. I recall many games in the balance when Gilly came in and within a session made the game Australia's.

 

[Daemon]

On pure numbers, Gilly equals Sewag, but you get a much better keeper than Dhoni. Remember - Gilly was a great keeper (except for the very end). Sanath is not as good as Sehwag.
When you discard Dhoni you can bring in Bevan. Sure Dhoni has an average like Bevan, but this is only for those who stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that batting has become markedly easier in ODI cricket since the 90's. Bevan would be averaging 60 odd nowadays and at a faster scoring rate, possibly even faster than Dhoni, when you factor in the recent acclerations in this area. He'd be scoring at least as quick as Dhoni, but making larger scores.

So take Gilly at the start - and get Bevan to finish. Dhoni isn't needed.

Or you can bring in Dhoni - get weaker keeping, lose Bevan and replace Gilly with....who? Who is as markedly better than Gilly as Bevo is to Dhoni?

When Gilly works, it is downhill sking for everyone after him. When Dhoni works, Bevan would have worked better.

Sure, ok. But both Bevan and Dhoni were better than Gilchrist as ODI batsman.

 

[cnerd123]

Yea I don't see why you can't pick both Bevan and MSD and have Sanath opening the batting, providing some h4x part-time spin as a bonus.

 

[Shri]

On pure numbers, Gilly equals Sewag, but you get a much better keeper than Dhoni. Remember - Gilly was a great keeper (except for the very end). Sanath is not as good as Sehwag.
When you discard Dhoni you can bring in Bevan. Sure Dhoni has an average like Bevan, but this is only for those who stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that batting has become markedly easier in ODI cricket since the 90's. Bevan would be averaging 60 odd nowadays and at a faster scoring rate, possibly even faster than Dhoni, when you factor in the recent acclerations in this area. He'd be scoring at least as quick as Dhoni, but making larger scores.

So take Gilly at the start - and get Bevan to finish. Dhoni isn't needed.

Or you can bring in Dhoni - get weaker keeping, lose Bevan and replace Gilly with....who? Who is as markedly better than Gilly as Bevo is to Dhoni?

When Gilly works, it is downhill sking for everyone after him. When Dhoni works, Bevan would have worked better.

Bevan was a different kind of finisher. He never let the req. RR drop by picking ones and twos and hit the rare boundary towards the end. There is no evidence that he can win you a game when its 20 required off 6 with a tailender at the other end. Dhoni's habit of dragging a match towards the end, and tuning a XI vs XI cricket game effectively into the final round of a boxing match only to knock the bowler out is something never before seen in ODI cricket. We will probably not see anyone with his approach to ODI cricket finishing again.

His strike rate and number of sixes suggest Bevan would be a support act with a good average if he were around now, not THE guy you want to get out. That said, I would probably play them both in the same side.

 

[harsh.ag]

Bevan was a chaser. Dhoni was a finisher.

 

[harsh.ag]

If someone really thinks Gilly was that good, there is nothing preventing them from picking both Dhoni and Gilly ffs. Random rubbish.

I prefer picking Ponting as my second opener.

 

[Shady Slim]

if i had to take one i'd pick dhoni because i think he brings a more unique skill set, whereas there are other options in the history of ODI cricket than can give you similar outputs to gilly

 

[Jono]

Daemon so obviously hates Gilly because of his big ears. Just needs to come out and say it

 

[Daemon]

Yea I don't see why you can't pick both Bevan and MSD and have Sanath opening the batting, providing some h4x part-time spin as a bonus.

I don't even care about the ATG XI, I'm just saying that Dhoni was a better batsman than Gilchrist. Perfectly fine if someone thinks Bevan>Dhoni and wants Gilchrist as the keeper batsman in the team, I don't give a ****, that's not what I'm arguing about.

 

[Daemon]

Bevan was a chaser. Dhoni was a finisher.

Dhoni was h4x at both tbf. Kohli's emergence later on meant he needed to do less chasing of course.

 

[marc71178]

Imo saying he benefited from it. Without being able to come in with the team in such a strong position with bowlers tired most of the times he would probably average less and have a lower strike rate.

I would pick Sanga and AB over him.

So the only ones you find are part time wicket-keepers, thus confirming Gilly as GOAT keeper. Thanks.

 

[OverratedSanity]

The Dhoni movie is a piece of crap. Young Yuvraj Singh was amazing. On point casting. The lead actor nailing a few of Dhoni's quirks while batting,was fun too.
Otherwise it's such a missed opportunity... It's just a series of matches in his career and explores nothing about what makes Dhoni tick as a leader or his calmness under pressure. Waste of time.

But the best bit easily was this :

Coach : " What do you do when you get a good outswinger?"
Dhoni: "Leave it"

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, yeah right.

 

[vcs]

The Dhoni movie us a piece of crap. Young Yuvraj Singh was amazing. On point casting. The lead actor nailing a few of Dhoni's quirks while batting,was fun too.
Otherwise it's such a missed opportunity... It's just a series of matches in his career and explores nothing about what makes Dhoni tick as a leader or his calmness under pressure. Waste of time.

But the best bit easily was this :

Coach : " What do you do when you get a good outswinger?"
Dhoni: "Leave it"

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, yeah right.

More like take a half-step forward, prod at it on the walk and edge it to slip. Edgbaston 2011 and Stuart Broad come to mind.