***Official*** New Zealand in India 2016

[straw man]

The merry go round is about to start spinning again, strap on your seatbelts boys.

Seatbelt strapped on...

trying to ignore the fact that Luke Woodcock finished in the top 10 run scorers in the domestic scene despite opening the whole season for the Firebirds.

... goggles on and ignoring as hard as I can.

In fairness the wheel had only stopped for Guptill because it was spinning furiously for the other opening position. Now that one is stable we have the (relative) luxury of revisiting the first.

 

[straw man]

What's Raval's bowling like? Alert: Kippax?

If you can't have one Jeets you can have another.

 

[hendrix]

I honestly think no New Zealand specialist opener aside from Latham would average above 13 in South Africa in the recent conditions. None. Zero. Zilch. Though I doubt many openers from countries with a lot more depth than ours would be enjoying facing Philander, Steyn and Rabada (if they last that long) in those conditions.

Not having a massive technical flaw would help though. You obviously need a bit of luck to do well in those conditions against that attack, but simply being able to play the ball late and below the eyes makes a big difference.

 

[Zinzan]

India vs. Ashwin/Jadeja/Mishra is an incredibly cruel place to debut a newcomer tho.

So is England, Australia, South Africa, Pakistan, SL & any of the non-minnows for that matter. Not sure why India is such a special case. If fact in the last decade, India's probably been the one away tour (outside the minnows) NZ batsmen actually do relatively well in.

Edit: I see Hendrix has already made this point...

 

[OverratedSanity]

So is England, Australia, South Africa, Pakistan, SL & any of the non-minnows for that matter. Not sure why India is such a special case. If fact in the last decade, India's probably been the one away tour (outside the minnows) NZ batsmen actually do relatively well in.

Edit: I see Hendrix has already made this point...

*****, like me, is assuming that the pitches will be like in the SA series. Otherwise, India is a friendly place to make a debut.

 

[NZTailender]

Thing is Guptill needs some decent FC cricket time opening, which he won't get floundering in Tests during the home summer, or even when ODIs are on.

I mean if we're serious about him in Test cricket he should be dropped from all formats if there's FC matches going on

 

[Zinzan]

I mean if we're serious about him in Test cricket he should be dropped from all formats if there's FC matches going on

I don't thing anyone is anymore... he's had 7 years now of trying to prove himself as a Test player and has failed...

Best thing Guppy could do is make a ton of dough playing T20 in tournaments, something he is actually good at and hopefully to stay around to play white-ball cricket for NZ.

 

[Flem274*]

NZ should play Southee/Boult/WAGner with two other bowling options IMO. If they lack a potent spin option, they could be in for long days on the field, and playing only 4 bowling options -one of which is a Bracewell or a mediocre spinner- will be suicide.

Are CoriAnderson or Neesham fit? A guy like Todd Astle could actually be useful. All NZ really need is an accurate spinner with decent flight - India have been atrocious at playing slow straight bowling as of recently. Santner could actually be a legitimate threat. Craig and Sodhi's lack of control makes them both poor selections, even tho either one of them could suddenly turn up one day and bag a cheap fiver.

Does Raval really bat like a subcontinental batsman? If so, he could be worth a look in. Otherwise, just stick with Guppy.

Latham is magnitudes better than ANY option we've had since Richardson (outside of McCullum's temporary foray from the top).

Guptill is just the best spud we have to fill that role, and when we watch as that spud gets eaten alive by South Africa and Australia we don't really get very surprised. Is it Raval's turn? Probably. Will Guptill go on tour too? Probably.

The difference with Guptill has always been that he is one of the greatest we've ever had in ODIs and there is that constant and perhaps somewhat naive thought that a man who isn't 30 years old yet may be able to find that gear where some of that skill will translate to the red ball game. It certainly seems to at the domestic level.

If we had another Latham waiting in the wings, he'd have been dropped. But Guptill's peers in that revolving door position are the likes of Cumming, Rutherford, McIntosh, How, Fulton, Flynn, Bell, Redmond, Nicol and Papps. We could argue till the cows came home if one of those spuds was robbed of their chance to shine, Guptill has certain been given one and hasn't taken advantage of the opportunities he has been afforded.

So now we turn back to the domestic scene for the next hopeful that may rise above the mediocrity, trying to ignore the fact that Luke Woodcock finished in the top 10 run scorers in the domestic scene despite opening the whole season for the Firebirds. Trying to ignore that Raval's stellar average for Auckland is still actually lower than Guptill's was. Trying to ignore that last year four of the top 7 leading wicket takers were spinners and of quicks to test the mettle of our openers only Andrew Ellis managed to average under 20 of blokes to take more than 15 wickets.

The merry go round is about to start spinning again, strap on your seatbelts boys.

I honestly think no New Zealand specialist opener aside from Latham would average above 13 in South Africa in the recent conditions. None. Zero. Zilch. Though I doubt many openers from countries with a lot more depth than ours would be enjoying facing Philander, Steyn and Rabada (if they last that long) in those conditions.

nailed it

 

[Kippax]

What's Raval's bowling like? Alert: Kippax?

Even Auckland Howsies wouldn't endorse the sight of Raval bowling ahead of KW in Tests. It's pretty filthy.

 

[Kippax]

 

[SteveNZ]

What's Raval's bowling like? Alert: Kippax?

If you can't have one Jeets you can have another.

It's actually not horrible. Not dissimilar to Gup, both could probably be FC all-rounders if they decided to abandon extra work on their batting and work on their stuff with the ball. Obviously that would be a bad idea, however.

As to whether Jeet is better or worse as a Test option than Gup...I don't think that's relevant particularly anymore. As I said, when you absolutely know Gup isn't up to it, you go to the next guy as long as he's averaging strongly in FC cricket. And that's Jeet, and has been for a few seasons. Yeah if he played his cricket at Uni Oval he might not be in the side, but he plays at EPOO. So that's that. Will he average more than Gup? No, I don't hold out massive hope for him to do so. But he partly deserves the opportunity and Gup partly deserves to be dropped. I'm not sure that Jeet would even be up to Zim/Banga/WI bashing like Gup has kept his career alive through but let's find out.

 

[SteveNZ]

Thing is Guptill needs some decent FC cricket time opening, which he won't get floundering in Tests during the home summer, or even when ODIs are on.

I mean if we're serious about him in Test cricket he should be dropped from all formats if there's FC matches going on

It's not really relevant how Gup goes against 125-130km attacks on dead pitches and dead Kookaburras in front of dead crowds and a dead silent media. And as you suggest, he won't get much of a chance anyway with his international commitments. So pretty much if he's to be dropped now, the only way he gets back in is by either the selection panel deciding he might be a #5 after all (unlikely) or whomever replaces him turns out to be so completely **** that an avg of 25 sounds quite nice, thank you very much.

 

[Howe_zat]

Very much in favour of noted Brudenell legend Jeet Raval.

 

[NZTailender]

It's not really relevant how Gup goes against 125-130km attacks on dead pitches and dead Kookaburras in front of dead crowds and a dead silent media. And as you suggest, he won't get much of a chance anyway with his international commitments. So pretty much if he's to be dropped now, the only way he gets back in is by either the selection panel deciding he might be a #5 after all (unlikely) or whomever replaces him turns out to be so completely **** that an avg of 25 sounds quite nice, thank you very much.

Another noted NZ world class opening ODI batsmen batted at 5, perhaps Guptill would be more suited to a similar role.

 

[Flem274*]

Anyone want to talk about India? Hello? Is anyone out there?

 

[SteveNZ]

Another noted NZ world class opening ODI batsmen batted at 5, perhaps Guptill would be more suited to a similar role.

Yeah, Astle debuted at #5 though. I've made it clear that I think Gup would have had a much better Test career at 5, but it's not ever going to happen. They've put too much into him as an opener, he's 30 and there's other options like Nicholls/Neesham/Anderson/Young etc.

Let's talk about India...Ashwin is going to make us his bitch, is he not?

 

[cnerd123]

I understand people getting tired of Guptill and feeling its time to replace him for the long-term health of the Test side...I think I just dont agree with making that move in such a big series; not unless you can be certain that Guptill's replacement will do better than Guptill does.

I hope Ashwin keeps batting at 6 and Che returns to number 3.

 

[NZTailender]

Anyone want to talk about India? Hello? Is anyone out there?

We'll probably get into a really good position to win and gift Ashwin a century so they save the match.

 

[91Jmay]

I understand people getting tired of Guptill and feeling its time to replace him for the long-term health of the Test side...I think I just dont agree with making that move in such a big series; not unless you can be certain that Guptill's replacement will do better than Guptill does.

I hope Ashwin keeps batting at 6 and Che returns to number 3.

There are a big % of tailenders who have done better than Guptil has against decent teams in the last 12 months. He is woeful, they stand to lose nothing by getting rid.

 

[Gnske]

I hope that was one of his bad days, because I gotta say that looked mass aids.