*Official* Pakistan in England and Ireland 2016

[Black_Warrior]

Surely you wanna put them in with the risk of rain ? I understand England don't want to bat last in this game but given how this one has played out so far, they shouldn't have to consider batting last.

 

[Compton]

What's the plan then? Bat out tonight and maybe tomorrow morning then give yourself 5 sessions to bowl them out again?

Unless Anderson or Stokes said they were struggling, I'd definitely have enforced the follow on. For their chances of saving a draw, Pakistan won't mind this decision at all.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Disgusting batting. Filthy. All this after South Africa have shown blockathons are perfectly possible.

I don't agree with not enforcing this follow on.

Who is this directed at? The top order or Wahab and co? If it's at the top order, well directed, if not, misdirected.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

If they bat 40 overs scoring at 5 an over then get them in tonight for 8 chasing 600 then it might not have been a bad decision. Got to score quickly now though.

 

[Howe_zat]

I don't agree with not enforcing this follow on.

I do. Not enforcing has all the benefits - resting bowlers, getting use of the pitch before it breaks up, setting impossible rather than improbable targets. It should be the norm.

Enforcing should be something you have a big reason to do to overcome the 50/50 situation, like the rain is wiping out the match.

 

[Compton]

I do. Not enforcing has all the benefits - resting bowlers, getting use of the pitch before it breaks up, setting impossible rather than improbable targets. It should be the norm.

Enforcing should be something you have a big reason to do to overcome the 50/50 situation, like the rain is wiping out the match.

Woakes has been the busiest bowler and he's only bowled 16 overs between last night and today. Questions should be asked if the bowlers need a rest.

It's a needless risk in my book. Granted one that's relatively unlikely to backfire.

 

[vcs]

I do. Not enforcing has all the benefits - resting bowlers, getting use of the pitch before it breaks up, setting impossible rather than improbable targets. It should be the norm.

Enforcing should be something you have a big reason to do to overcome the 50/50 situation, like the rain is wiping out the match.

The lead is 391. That's massive. Maybe they think the conditions have eased a bit looking at the 9th wicket partnership?

 

[Howe_zat]

Here's Shane Warne to tell us about why he doesn't understand anything about modern cricket again.

I have never seen a side bowl better when enforcing the follow on. Never. It isn't the norm any more and it shouldn't be. It's a hang over from the days when one in three games were draws because cricket was slow and ****.

 

[Howe_zat]

The lead is 391. That's massive. Maybe they think the conditions have eased a bit looking at the 9th wicket partnership?

Conditions have been pretty consistently good for batting. England haven't hooped the ball or got it to reverse, they've bowled some very good short balls and few of the Pakistan batsmen got themselves out.

 

[91Jmay]

5th biggest lead ever without enforcing follow on. Stupid decision.

 

[fredfertang]

Batting again is ridiculous - we will look ****ing silly if they rip through our top order now

 

[Black_Warrior]

He's Shane Warne to tell us about why he doesn't understand anything about modern cricket again.

I have never seen a side bowl better when enforcing the follow on. Never. It isn't the norm any more and it shouldn't be. It's a hang over from the days when one in three games were draws because cricket was slow and ****.

I don't agree with Warne on most things but I don't think this is so much a modern/old cricket thing. There are circumstances when a follow on is not feasible and there are times when it is. In this particular match, I believe (unless the forecast is wrong) there is a high chance of rain in Day 4 and 5. If that is the case..you want to make most of the available time and the choice is
1) Add to 391 runs lead and take 10 wickets
2) Take 10 wickets

 

[Daemon]

Who is this directed at? The top order or Wahab and co? If it's at the top order, well directed, if not, misdirected.

I thought Sarfraz batted with a bizarre mindset when trying to save a game, and Wahab going after Moeen and hitting him in the air repeatedly where there were fielders was particularly silly.

The top order was terrible, but they fell to a lack of skill rather than a lack of trying.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I thought Sarfraz batted with a bizarre mindset when trying to save a game, and Wahab going after Moeen and hitting him in the air repeatedly where there were fielders was particularly silly.

The top order was terrible, but they fell to a lack of skill rather than a lack of trying.

I have to disagree with that. It's the exact opposite. Neither Wahab nor Sarfraz have the skillset required to grit it out ala SA.

For me the major culprits are Azhar and Hafeez here because there was absolutely nothing in the pitch to justify the way they got out. Top 3 seeing off the new ball is extremely important for most teams, more so for Pakistan who are so susceptible to collapses when playing away and it always happens when the top 3 don't do their job.

 

[Daemon]

We saw Wahab trying to defend, yeah? He was edging it through the slips like a james vince highlight reel

Trying to slog a few is as much as you can expect from your #10

He had no trouble against Moeen though, that was all Stokes, who later on he was negotiating pretty well. Why couldn't he do that with Ali as well?

 

[Howe_zat]

I don't agree with Warne on most things but I don't think this is so much a modern/old cricket thing. There are circumstances when a follow on is not feasible and there are times when it is. In this particular match, I believe (unless the forecast is wrong) there is a high chance of rain in Day 4 and 5. If that is the case..you want to make most of the available time and the choice is
1) Add to 391 runs lead and take 10 wickets
2) Take 10 wickets

Small possibility of rain today and nothing forecast for days 4 and 5. Even if you should take the forecast into account, which you shouldn't, then it isn't going to impede cricket on the last two days.

FTr the two options are to

1) bowl less effectively now
2) bowl more effectively later

When England win this Test, in part because they wisely chose option 2 in order to get the best out of their attack and conditions, it would be prudent for people to admit that. But since the getonwithitis is too strong, I expect it'll just be 'see they didn't need to bat again'.

But that's not the point. You bowl better after batting again. The opposition will bat worse after you bat again. You should need to enforce the follow on to do so, and here they don't.

The only reason why following on is something people want to see is because they don't like the batting side delaying the game in this way. If people could admit that I'd be okay with it.

 

[Daemon]

I have to disagree with that. It's the exact opposite. Neither Wahab nor Sarfraz have the skillset required to grit it out ala SA.

You're telling me Wahab can't do what he did against the rest of the bowlers to Moeen? Sarfraz was nearly out twice in his first 3 deliveries flailing after wide stuff. You're saying he doesn't have the skill to watch the first few go at the very least?

They batted with the wrong attitude. Perhaps I was harsh in calling it filthy but it was not the way they should have played.

For me the major culprits are Azhar and Hafeez here because it was there was absolutely nothing in the pitch to justify the way they got out. Top 3 seeing off the new ball is extremely important for most teams, more so for Pakistan who are so susceptible to collapses when playing away and it always happens when the top 3 don't do their job.

Yes, most if not all of the blame goes to the top order for sure. Not relevant to what I was saying though

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I would probably have bowled again but I am not there and don't know how fit Anderson and Stokes are and whether Broad and Woakes are feeling the fact they are in the middle of back to back games. If we don't win from here we will look very silly but we should win and I think we will. Not that much rain around over the rest of the game so shouldn't be a factor.

 

[91Jmay]

Raining now, weather coming from Liverpool. Will be off for a hour absolute minimum, could lost most of final session

 

[91Jmay]

Small possibility of rain today and nothing forecast for days 4 and 5. Even if you should take the forecast into account, which you shouldn't, then it isn't going to impede cricket on the last two days.

FTr the two options are to

1) bowl less effectively now
2) bowl more effectively later

When England win this Test, in part because they wisely chose option 2 in order to get the best out of their attack and conditions, it would be prudent for people to admit that. But since the getonwithitis is too strong, I expect it'll just be 'see they didn't need to bat again'.

But that's not the point. You bowl better after batting again. The opposition will bat worse after you bat again. You should need to enforce the follow on to do so, and here they don't.

The only reason why following on is something people want to see is because they don't like the batting side delaying the game in this way. If people could admit that I'd be okay with it.

Or could it be perhaps that we just disagree with you?

Bowling again gives England the best chance to win the test match.

You keep putting out the subjective idea that teams bowl better without enforcing the follow on as if it is a fact, it isn't.