The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[watson]

I might as well join in.

Gooch
Stewart
Gower
Pietersen
Thorpe
Botham
Flintoff
Swann
Russell
Gough
Fraser

I still can't bring myself to pick a team without a proper keeper.

Yeah, there is no excuse for not having a top notch keeper in these teams.

 

[Coronis]

Skippers XI

G. Smith
M. Taylor
Ponting
Border
Llloyd
S. Waugh
Imran
Dhoni +
S.Pollock
Benaud
Walsh

Bradman over Ponting, surely.

 

[Prince EWS]

Edit: Nevermind.

Seems a lot of people here really believe in the value of Stewart as a stand alone batsman. Was he really all that much better than Trescothick?

Well he only has to be slightly better than Trescothick to be picked ahead of him tbf.

 

[the big bambino]

In the spirit of Frank Wooley I figure I might as well thrown down an 'A' team of EU era Englishmen.

Strauss
Atherton c
Vaughan
Trott
Smith
Collingwood
Prior +
Dilley
Edmonds
Caddick
Harmison

And a 'B' team

Butcher
C Broad
Hussain c
Lamb
Hick
Gatting
Russell +
DeFreitas
Hoggard
Jones
Panesar

The 'B' team is missing an all-rounder however.

Not enough Kent players.

 

[Red]

I might as well join in.

Gooch
Stewart
Gower
Pietersen
Thorpe
Botham
Flintoff
Swann
Russell
Gough
Fraser

I still can't bring myself to pick a team without a proper keeper.

In the spirit of Frank Wooley I figure I might as well thrown down an 'A' team of EU era Englishmen.

Strauss
Atherton c
Vaughan
Trott
Smith
Collingwood
Prior +
Dilley
Edmonds
Caddick
Harmison

And a 'B' team

Butcher
C Broad
Hussain c
Lamb
Hick
Gatting
Russell +
DeFreitas
Hoggard
Jones
Panesar

The 'B' team is missing an all-rounder however.

FWIW here is the Australian XIs from the same era.

Warner
Langer
Ponting
Waugh
Waugh
Border
Gilchrist +
Warne
Thomson
Gillespie
McGrath


Taylor
Slater
Smith
Martyn
Clarke
Hussey
Healy +
Johnson
Harris
McDermott
MacGill


Hayden
Wessels
Boon
Jones
Katich
Watson
Haddin +
Hughes
Alderman
Lyon
Reid

 

[jimmy101]

Great stuff RH.

It's amazing isn't it? Australia had so much depth during that era it isn't funny. The fact that blokes like Lee, May, Yallop, Siddle, Clark, Fleming, Rogers, Symonds & Rodney Hogg didn't make the cut is astonishing.

I'm surprised to see Matt Hayden in the thrids though, not sure of Warner has done enough just yet to justify his spot in the first team. I'd have Haydos open with JL for old time's sake.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

FWIW here is the Australian XIs from the same era.

Warner
Langer
Ponting
Waugh
Waugh
Border
Gilchrist +
Warne
Thomson
Gillespie
McGrath


Taylor
Slater
Smith
Martyn
Clarke
Hussey
Healy +
Johnson
Harris
McDermott
MacGill


Hayden
Wessels
Boon
Jones
Katich
Watson
Haddin +
Hughes
Alderman
Lyon
Reid

A few there still active so will need replacing as soon as they play another Test.

 

[jimmy101]

If I may...

Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Border c
M Waugh
S Waugh
Gilchrist +
Warne
Gillespie
Thomson
McGrath

-

Taylor c
Slater
Boon
Martyn
Clarke
Hussey
Healy +
Johnson
McDermott
Alderman
MacGill

-

Katich
Watson
Yallop c
Jones
Lehmann
Symonds
Haddin +
Harris
Lee
May
Reid

 

[Red]

A few there still active so will need replacing as soon as they play another Test.

Maybe replace Lyon with Greg Matthews/Tim May, Warner with Watson and Smith with Kim Hughes/Andrew Symonds.

On Hayden being in the third XI, I was never a big fan. Acknowledge he was a very good player, but thought he went missing a bit when the heat was on.

 

[Gob]

Maybe replace Lyon with Greg Matthews/Tim May, Warner with Watson and Smith with Kim Hughes/Andrew Symonds.

On Hayden being in the third XI, I was never a big fan. Acknowledge he was a very good player, but thought he went missing a bit when the heat was on.

not true

 

[Red]

not true

What?

 

[The Battlers Prince]

Can't think of many batsmen who didn't have a bad series here and there. It's more a personal opinion between the good openers imo.

 

[Red]

Really always felt Hayden was a bit of a downhill skier, and always felt that when the opposition pace attack was really good he struggled.

My impression may or may not be tainted by the fact I think he's an absolute flog though.

 

[OverratedSanity]

What?

He outscored the whole Pakistan team there in 50 degree heat.

 

[Red]

He outscored the whole Pakistan team there in 50 degree heat.

I'll credit him with the fact that he was very good in subcontinent conditions, and was outstanding against spin, especially for an opener. In that test, Waqar and Shoaib only bowled 22 out of 92 overs in the Aust innings. Doesn't take away from the fact that I think the best quick bowlers worked him out. Went completely missing in 2005 when England actually had a semi-decent pace attack, in a series where he needed to stand up. Exposed the middle order in the early tests because he wanted to be the hero. Lacked the tact to play to the conditions.

Anyway, I'm no where near saying "he was crap" or anything. He was a very very good opening batsman and I acknowledge how good he was. Just always felt he had a major flaw as an opener against very good pace attacks. I'd rank Slater, Taylor and Langer above him as openers.

 

[the big bambino]

Would rate Eng's 2005 pace attack as considerably better then semi decent.

I should check to see the facts to confirm it but my memory was he tried to bully Hoggard as he had previously. In different conditions and chastened by historical humiliations Hoggard got the better of him. I think Hayden's weakness was tactical as he refused to re think his methods after bowlers like Hoggard worked him out.

 

[Red]

Hoggard, Harmison, Jones and Flintoff all bowled really well in that series. Think they were a case of the sum being bigger than the parts, because none of them were out and out greats, but they worked to a plan really well. Hoggard and Flintoff worked Hayden over, Flintoff worked Gilchrist over, Jones seemed to get right inside Clarke's head. Martyn was a passenger the whole series, as was Katich.

I'll never forget how immense Warne was in that series. His will to win was tangible, and he couldn't have done more than he did.

 

[The Battlers Prince]

I thought the '05 Ashes were poor for Haydos. But just looked at the scorecards again and he missed out on 50's until the Oval. But he was making 30 odd apart from 3 innings and that's a decent start. And was out after Langer the same amount as it happened in reverse. I doubt anyone could change your mind however I think he's in the top side for me. He's one of those players that seem to polarise people's opinions.

 

[watson]

THE CURIOSITY XIs

I would love to see a triangular tournament between these three teams out of sheer curiosity and to answer a few questions.

How did Spofforth, Noble, Barnes, and Lohmann really bowl, and how would they go against Bradman or a modern genius like Barry Ruchards?

How good were the old time quicks like Jones, Richadson, McDonald and Constantine when compared to Marshall and Adcock?

How would Bradman fair after being worked over by Marshall and Adcock, and who was the more intimidating?

Does an Amar Singh delivery really "come off the pitch with the crack of doom" as Hammond said?

How would the old time batsman like Trumper, Grace, and Murdoch fair against Marshall?

Who was really better - Grace, Trumper, Bradman, Headley, or Richards?

Who was the greatest stumper of all time - Oldfield, Lilley or Cameron?

And many others.......


AUSTRALIA
01. Warren Bardsley
02. Victor Trumper
03. Don Bradman
04. Bill Murdoch
05. Charlie Macartney
06. Warwick Armstrong
07. Monty Noble
08. Bert Oldfield
09. Ernie Jones
10. Fred Spofforth
11. Ted McDonald


ENGLAND
01. Jack Hobbs
02. WG Grace
03. Kumar Ranjitsinhji
04. Walter Hammond
05. Denis Compton
06. Frank Woolley
07. Frank Foster
08. Arthur Lilley
09. George Lohmann
10. Sydney Barnes
11. Tom Richardson


WORLD
01. Vijay Merchant
02. Barry Richards
03. George Headley
04. Everton Weekes
05. Dudley Nourse
06. Aubrey Faulkner
07. Learie Constantine
08. Jock Cameron
09. Malcolm Marshall
10. Amar Singh
11. Neil Adcock

 

[Gob]

Maybe replace Lyon with Greg Matthews/Tim May, Warner with Watson and Smith with Kim Hughes/Andrew Symonds.

On Hayden being in the third XI, I was never a big fan. Acknowledge he was a very good player, but thought he went missing a bit when the heat was on.

not true

What?

it was 50 degrees ffs