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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

TheJediBrah

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I have good recollections of the English and South African fast bowlers taking Gilchrist's wicket later in his career by deliberately going around the wicket and targeting the top of his off-stump. The success with this tactic might explain the drop in average.

Would be interesting to find out if my hunch is true.
No. That tactic, ie. Gilchrist's supposed weakness of getting bowled from around the wicket/left armers was well known since the 20th century. I remember back as far as 1999 the commentators talking about it constantly every time he went out to open in ODIs and found it quite annoying that they made the same comments every game.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Yeh but plenty of bowlers weren't good enough to actually exploit it. Flintoff really worked him over in 2005 with this tactic. He hated being cramped up and unable to free his arms.

Flintoff was the perfect bowler to contain Gilly
 

TheJediBrah

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Flintoff was just a really good bowler in 2005. It probably coincided with Gilchrist's age-related decline co-ordination wise etc, but to imply that it was the cause of it is fanciful to say the least.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Flintoff was just a really good bowler in 2005. It probably coincided with Gilchrist's age-related decline co-ordination wise etc, but to imply that it was the cause of it is fanciful to say the least.
Did I imply that?
 

bagapath

International Captain
Best team with a test batting average under 99.94


Hutton
Hobbs
V.Richards
Tendulkar
Hammond
Sobers
Gilchrist
Wasim
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne
To take them on....

Gavaskar
H. Sutcliffe
Lara
Kallis
Weekes
De Villiers
Imran
Knott (wk)
Truman
Murali
McGrath
 

watson

Banned
So many better candidates than de Villiers
Depends on how you look a it. There are not too many batsman who can say that they are best of their specific era, or close to it.

Smith, Warner, Kohli, Root and Williamson are the other obvious candidates. But I have de Villiers just ahead of them all.

In a decade from now when we can put on our rose tinted glasses de Villiers will be held in the same esteem as many other greats.

 
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marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
The mere fact that you can name another 5 players from his own era that cases could be made for them being better batsmen probes he's nowhere near being worthy of a spot in an all time XI
 

watson

Banned
The mere fact that you can name another 5 players from his own era that cases could be made for them being better batsmen probes he's nowhere near being worthy of a spot in an all time XI

There are always a mix of batsman in any given era that are close to eachother in terms of greatness. Nominate Tendulkar and you also have to mention Lara, Ponting, Waugh, and Sangakkara.

Perhaps I'm biased because I find de Villiers so good to watch. I tend to overlook a multitude of sins when I see an attacking batsman with the full range of shots and a perfect cover drive.
 

watson

Banned
This lengthy piece by Edrich is interesting. Obviously Amar Singh and Constantine left a strong impression after only a handful of Tests and their time in the Lancashire league during the 1930s. Although I dare say that his team might have been different if he'd penned it after 1948.

Edrich's World XI

HAMMOND AS LEADER

By W. J. EDRICH, 12 July 1947

I have been asked to pick the beat World Cricket XI. I have been offered the full array of cricket history to choose from, but that is too big an undertaking and I will make my selection from men of my own time.

If it were possible to pit this combination against any other since cricket began I would be bold enough to back my men to win. Hare is my team in batting order:

HUTTON (England).
PONSFORD (Australia).
BRADMAN (Australia).
HAMMOND (England. captain).
COMPTON (England).
CONSTANTINE (West Indies).
AMAR SINGH (India).
CAMERON (S. Africa).
LARWOOD (England).
VERITY (England).
O'REILLY (Australia).

This would be a combination of thrilling and devastating perfection. Batting goes all the way down to number ten. Bowling goes back up the list to number three. Four are all-rounders. All field brilliantly— that is if you look sideways a bit at Bill O'Reilly! There is the greatest pace I have ever seen, the best spin and flight, the most powerful and consistent batting and in Constantine and Amar Singh, the most electric hitters of their time. Yes, I would put Hammond as captain. He has his faults, and has been criticised from time to time; but I have played with him a lot, and he is my clear and certain choice. He is without some of the more dramatic qualities of certain other personalities in Ihe game, perhaps, but probably knows more about cricket than anybody else playing today. He is a far more astute tactician than is generally appreciated, is the best slip fielder i have ever seen and, in his prime, the most powerful and exhilarating batsman of them all. Also, he Is just the man to deal with the other giants of (his great side.

I pick Hutton and Ponsford to open the batting because I have never seen anybody else play swing bowling better. At his best Hutton has all the patience and perfection of his tutor Sutcliffe, and an even wider range of scoring strokes when they arc required. Ponsford who played with the heaviest bat I have ever handled, had very similar qualities. He could defend or push according to the slate of the game.

Mighty Bradman

Bradman of course is the obvious certain choice for number three. I have run many miles chasing the balls he has hit to the far corners of England and Australia and have had ample opportunity to study him. He Is without doubt the most devastating, methodical run-gettng machine In the whole history of cricket. His success is due, in my view, to exceptional eyesight, tremendous powers of concentration, ability to make up his mind more quickly than anybody else how to deal wilh each ball sent down, and lightning quick movements to take up position to strike. These give him all the time in the world to make his shots with accuracy and safety. Think of having to bowl to Bradman at one end and Hammond at the other!

Hammond is my number four. They would be a tremendous combination with the more graceful and equally powerful Englishman the more delightful to watch. And then would came Denis Compton, another genius with shots all round the clock. His special brand of leg-side flips cause eyebrows to be raised now and then, hut they are Compton specialities. Temperament? Compton has none. He has an incredible knack of keeping everything in the right perspective and he treats every situation as just another part of the game he thoroughly enjoys.

Next comes Constantine. The West Indian thunderbolt has always been as likely to hit a six off the first bail pitched dead on his middle stump as any other and no normal field setting could cope with him. Then there's the tall, powerful Indian, Amar Singh, my number seven, who could bowl all day and then swing his hnt like a slimilnr. He loved to crash his runs on the board in hurry of boundaries and hit with such power that he always threatened to burst the ball. No wonder these Iwo great players were so successful with the Leagues of Lancashire.

South African wicketkeeper-batsman Cameron comes next — rather low in the order for such a talented player, but then this is an unusual combination. Cameron, who died after tlie last tour of Britain, was a great artist as both batsman and wickerkeeping.

Of the bowlers, Larwood. the fastest and most accurate within living memory, would open with Constantine, who was nearly as fast. Amar Singh would be there to supply his deadly medium-fast mixtures of swingers and cutters, and then we would have the spinners, Verily, the great Yorkshire lefthander, and O'Reilly, the Australian leg-break and googly specialist.

O'Reilly Best

Most cricketers regard O'Reilly as the greatest bowler of all time and certainly I know of no greater. He bowled his spinners faster than is normal for players of his type; he spun the ball more, pitched wilh phenomenal accuracy. could pick out a batsmans weakness in a flash and then bowl to it without mistake.

Well, what do you think? Could you pick a team lo beat mine? With the West Indian Headley to remember, Sid Barnes of Australia (now playing for Burnley in Lancashire League), Merchant of India, Melville of South Africa, Clarrie Grimmett of Australia, and so many others, there could be powerful challengers. But with my team I would gladly take on all-comers for goodly stakes.

12 Jul 1947 - Edrich's World XI - Trove
 
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the big bambino

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah some interesting selections there. Edrich played Amar Singh on the Tennyson tour and obviously the experience impressed him. He played Constantine in 1939 and lost his wicket 3 times out 3 to him. Although by then Constantine was a different bowler and only bowled the occasional faster ball so says Wisden.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Amar Singh the most interesting pick there for mine. Never seen him in an Indian ATG team.

There is no better bowler in the world today than Amar Singh,'' said Len Hutton in an informal chat with pressmen at Madras in 1970. It was 34 years since the legendary England opening batsman had faced the Indian medium pace bowler while playing for Yorkshire. And it is the perfect tribute to Amar Singh that Hutton still remembered the hard time that the Indian, then a member of the 1936 Indian team, gave him. Another England great Wally Hammond described Amar Singh's bowling as "he came off the pitch like the crack of doom". Indeed, Amar Singh, along with Md Nissar was the first great Indian bowler for his accuracy, stamina and ability to make the ball move alarmingly off the air or cut it devastatingly off the pitch.
- cricinfo
 

watson

Banned
Here are Grimmett's favourite players from his time. I'm not sure why he has Hammond opening when Bardsley is in the team, nor why he has relegated Bradman to No.5. Cameron is an interesting selection over Oldfield and Ames, especially as Cameron is judged to be a better batsman than Ames.

Grimmett's view on averages is also worth a read.



Grimmett Names Best XI Since War

Armstrong Captain, Cameron (South Africa) the Keeper

HOBBS, BEST OPENER OF ALL TIME


CV GRIMMETT, 25 March 1938

In this, the last of his series of eight articles, Clarrie Grimmett chooses what he considers to be the best team from among the many great cricketers he has met during the past 20 years. Grimmett selects Warwick Armstrong as captain, and the late H. B. Cameron, of South Africa, as wicketkeeper, and, although everyone may not agree with his choice, all will admit that the team chosen by him would be difficult to bat or bowl against.



I am going to start the last of my series of articles by choosing a team from among the best cricketers I have played with or against in first class cricket since the war. Selecting world teams is a favorite pastime among cricketers both young and old, and I have chosen mine by iudging the men on the form displayed by them in matches in which I have taken part. I am not such an optimist as to imagine everyone will agree with me n my choice. Most of the team pick themselves, but there several places which are not filled so easily.

Here is my team in the order of batting:

B. Hobbs (England)
W. R. Hammond (England)
W. Bardsley (Aust.)
C. Macartney (Aust.)
D. G. Bradman (Aust.)
W. W. Armstrong (Aust.)
J. M. Gregory (Aust.)
H. B. Cameron (S. Africa)
H. Larwood (England)
M. W. Tate (England)
W. O'Reilly (Aust.).


All that I would ask in return for selecting such a formidable side is that I should not be asked to bowl them out. Of the 11 men chosen, eight are capable of making centuries against any bowling. Tate and Larwood should be good for 50 occasionally, and even Bill O'Reilly has sometimes proved difficult to dislodge.

Under normal conditions, I would open the bowling with Larwood and Tate, relieve Larwood with Gregory, and then bring on Armstrong and O'Reilly. Hammond would be invaluable when the pitch was beginning to wear, and Macartney would be available for wickets which suit his type of bowling.

Before giving my reasons for selecting the eleven, here are some of the champions I have had to leave out: McCabe, Kippax, Woolley, Hendren, Duleepsinhji, Headley, Nourse, McDonaald, Oldfield, Ponsford, Leyland, Ames, and Ironmonger.

Larwood and Gregory gain the preference over Ted McDonald. Larwood is the greatest fast bowler of my generation, and although McDonald was a better bowler than Gregory, Jack's phenomenal slip fielding and forceful batting would offset this advantage. Gregory was a picturesque figure on the cricket field and, by his example, raised the fielding level of any team in which he played. Tate was an extraordinarily versatile bowler. He could go on at either end with equal effectiveness. O'Reilly is easily the most aggressive bowler of his type that I have ever seen, and any team would have its work cut out to get on top of such a strong bowling side.

Run-getting would be difficult against such accurate bowlers. Usually, in a team, you have one or two bowlers who, on their day, are champions but who have their off days as well. I cannot imagine my team's bowling being collared.

One of Truly Great Players

There has never been a better opening batsman than Jack Hobbs, while Warren Bardsley stands out supreme among the left-handers I have seen. Charlie Macartney is one of the truly great players, while Don Bradman needs no boost on my part, neither does Walter Hammond. Warwick Armstrong would be a rock of Gibraltar to any side with his batting and bowling and is the obvious choice as captain.

I have chosen "Jock" Cameron as wlcketkeeper in preference to Bert Oldfield or Leslie Ames, and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I would prefer him as a batsman to either Oldfield or Ames, and for the type of bowling represented in my eleven, he would be just as effective a 'keeper. It is easy to find among the men rejected cricketers who, you feel, must have a place in a world team, but deciding whom you will leave out in order to fit them in is not such an easy problem. In picking my team I have not worried about averages, but have chosen the men on my impressions of them and of their value as players.

In a general way, averages are a guide to form, but they are not always a true register of a player's ability. For example, in the averages of bowlers, no account is taken of the relative merits of the batsmen dismissed. Sometimes a bowler battles through most of an innings and gets a couple of wickets. After *the back of the side has been broken, another bowler-comes on and dismisses four "rabbits." In the averages, his feat appears as the better performance. Some newspapers are prone to count a player's ability by averages alone, and even selection committees are liable to do the same thing. At the back of the minds of such people is the law of justification-the fact that they can point to the averages for support when a player whom they select is criticised.

Device To Help Umpires

I have been asked at times whether I will take up umpiring when I retire. I will never lose my keenness for cricket, but I prefer to watch it without the worries of umpiring thrown in. Umpiring is a thankless job, and unless the decision is obviously right to everyone, the umpire is apt to come in for a lot of critcism. The ideal umpire is the man with a pleasing personality, who is firm in his decisions. I think umpires have too much to do, and could easily be relieved of the task of counting the balls in an over. In a six-ball over at Manchester in 1934, "Gubby" Allen sent down 13 deliveries, there being four no-balls and three wides before he completed his over. What a worry that umpire must have had to keep tally of the correct number of balls in that over! The scorer counts the number of balls in an over, and there is no reason why he should not telegraph the completion of the over to the umpire and leave him free to concentrate on a job which requires the whole of his attention.

In Dunedin (New Zealand) the scorer strikes a gong when the last ball of the over is bowled. The noise can be heard all over the ground, but is not objectionable. Frank Chester was the best of the English umpires, but was not as good as Bob Crockett. Once, when I was playing for Prahran against St. Kilda, the batsman drove a ball hard back along the wicket and hit the stumps. His partner was out of his crease at the time, and was given out by Crockett. While the victim was walking back to the pavilion, Crockett, who thought the bowler had touched the ball, overheard a conversation, learned from the bowler that he had not touched the ball on its way to the stumps, ran after the batsman, and brought him back to complete his innings. Some people might say that Crockett should not have altered his decision after such a lapse of time ,but, to my mind, his action shows the wonderful strength of character' and sense of fair play which were typical of the man.

The most difficult batsman to dismiss is the man who jumps down the wicket and does not allow the break to operate. He certainly gives a sporting chance, but he is more interesting to bowl against than the stodgy type, who will not do anything but poke here and there, and who scores an odd single every now and then. When you strike one of these quickfooted batsmen the game takes on a battle air, and even the old gentlemen in the pavilion and their lady friends with their knitting sit up and take notice. I always think that slow bowlers have been put into the game for the express purpose of brightening it up. There is always something doing when we get the ball. Hammond, Hendren, Kippax, Andrews, and McCabe are the best examples of quick-footed batsmen against whom I have played.

George Gunn was on the wane when I saw him, but he used to dance halfway down the wicket, even to a fast bowler, when he was in his prime. I met him at BIackpool in 1926, and at first he made a full toss of every ball I bowled. This put me on my mettle, and so I quickened my delivery and bowled a lower ball. Eventually I forced him to play back, and bowled him off his pads.

"You're a cunning old fox," Archie McLaren once said to me. "Why is it that you always bowl with a low trajectory. to quick-footed players and throw the ball up to stodgy ones?" My reply was, "I leave it to you." A low ball helps "to make a batsman retreat into his wicket, while a ball thrown high is like a magnet in persuading even the stodgiest of batsmen to play forward.

To be successful, a slow bowler must have the natural ability to spin the ball, and must be able to apply the spin in the correct way. He must train intensively to become proficient, and he must be learning all the time.

Slow Bowling Is Hard Work

You cannot become a champion slow bowler overnight. It is difficult work, because slow bowling is so hard to control. You must have enthusiasm, and it is surprising how far you will get if you more or less eat, drink, and sleep cricket. You have got to be lucky because when you get your chances you need a slice of luck to make the most of them. You cannot sit back and rest on your laurels, but you must still keep striving to improve. It would not do to attack a batsman the same way every time, in fact, you must adapt your bowling to the way he is batting. You must place your field for the type of ball you propose to bowl, because the direction of the ball you send down rules, to some extent, the places to which the batsman can hit the ball safely. There is a tremendous amount of psychology in the game. For example, if a batsman hits a ball to a fieldsman and refuses his partner's call for an easy run, you may be almost certain that the next time the batsman plays a ball to that fieldsman, if there is the slightest possibility of a run, he will go for it. If the fieldsman is on the alert, the chances are that a run-out will result.

Yes, bowling is hard work. I used to practise for hours trying to make my leg breaks land on a mark which I had placed on the pitch. It is the only way to succeed. Sometimes I think it would be a splendid idea if a trapdoor were provided near the wicket so that slow bowlers could hide themselves when the occasion demanded. There have been many occasions when I would have been glad of such a shelter, and I think batsmen would be glad to use it after making a "duck" in front of a huge crowd.

Chapman, Best Fieldsman

The finest fieldsman I have seen was A. P. F.. Chapman, when he visited Australia with Mclaren's amateur side. He was an accurate throw, had a terrific reach, and never missed a ball if he got it into his huge hands. Percy put on a lot of weight by the time he reached Test cricket, but he was still one of the best fieldsmen in the world. I never saw him drop a catch.

The greatest specialist fieldsman was Jack Hobbs at cover. He would amble towards the ball if there was no chance of a run-out, but if the batsmen were attempting a risky run, Hobbs would move like greased lightning. He always threw at the top of the stumps, not at the bottom like some players today, and he rarely missed with his return. Andrews, Hendren, Hammond, Jack Gregory, Vic Richardson, Nourse, Constantine, Geary, Robins, Langton, and Wade are other names that come to mind as first-class fieldsmen. Charlie Macartney had almost finished his career when I met him, but he was very sure with his hands. Bradman, of course, is renowned for his ground fielding.

How will the Australians fare in England? They have the nucleus of a fine side, and should give a good account of themselves, but some of the new men, who have made their name in Australia, may fail in England. Strange living conditions, different types of pitches, playing six days a week-all help to upset players. Every touring side seems to carry one or two passengers who never find their legs. The selectors aim at getting the best team into form early, and these 11 men get more opportunities than the also rans. If one of the outsiders gets a chance and fails, he may have to wait some time before he is tried again. The longer he has to wait for the chance the less likely he is to succeed, and so adaptability is one of the greaest assets a cricketer needs on a tour. He must be unruffled, and must take the good with the bad. When not playing in a match he should get as far away from cricket as possible. I used to go down to Wimbledon to watch the tennis champions or play golf or see a good musical show.

Believes In Relaxation

When I'm not playing, I try to forget about cricket. I like listening to good music after a heavy day in the field. I have always been a great believer in relaxing, because then you can concentrate all the better when the occasion demands. No series of cricket articles would be complete without a reference to Bill Ferguson, the scorer and baggage man. "Fergie" is known. wherever cricket is played, and .he is the most travelled man in the game. He decorates his scoring sheets with sketches made at or near the different grounds where the matches are played, and he is also a keen photographer. "Fergie" keeps a complete record of every phase of the game, including graphs showing each batsman's scoring strokes. He has been doing this work for a generation, and I have yet to meet the cricketer with a complaint against "Fergie." Only once has a piece of baggage gone astray, and it was "Fergie's" own suitcase. He had brought an English *team from Perth. to Adelaide, and although all their luggage went to their hotel, "Fergie's" went on to Melbourne. He soon found it again. * He has a most pleasing personality. Nothing is a trouble, and the slightest request from a ,player is attended to immediately. Having a man like this touring with a side relieves the manager of a tremendous amount of work, and helps to promote harmony among the players.

Cricket has taken me into many lands which I would have never visited otherwish. I have travelled extensively in Europe, crossed Canada from east to west, and seen a good deal of South Africa. I have made a host of friends in these countries, and I am sure that if I ever revisit these places I will find plenty of people who will be glad to talk about old times again. Cricket has been the means of introducing me to a fine lot of people, whom I would have never met in the ordinary course of events. I do not want to disparage other games, but I believe that cricket attracts a finer type of sportsman than any other game. Among the many privileges which cricket has conferred on me was that of meeting the late King George V. and his consort, Queen Mary. It was a hot day when we went to Sandringham in 1930 and His Majesty, with typical consideration, said, "You'd better put your hats on boys." Unfortunately, a photograph was published showing us wearing our hats in the presence of the King and people who did not know that it was done at the King's request, criticised us for our alleged disloyalty. We were warned before we entered the castle that we must not take photographs, but soon after we got there the King said, "I suppose you boys would like to take some photographs?" "Yes, Your Majesty," replied Woodfull, so the King, taking Queen Mary by the arm, selected a good position for pictures, and stood there for 20 minutes. I suggested to the boys that we should pool our photographs, get enlargements made, and send them in an album to the King. Four years later, when we met him at Windsor, the King again invited us to take photographs, and expressed a wish for another album as a souvenir of our visit. The King had no difficulty in remembering the players whom he had met during our previous tour and seemed to know a good deal about their personal history. There is one last point I want to mention before I draw stumps, and that is how much I appreciated the generosity of everyone who helped to make the testimonial match, which the South Australian Cricket Association arranged for Vic Richardson and me, such a success. I hope I have been worthy of it. Conclusion.

25 Mar 1938 - Grimmett Names Best XI. Since War - Trove
 
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watson

Banned
Frank Woolley nominated his ATG world XI in 1936. It caused quite a furore at the time with people complaining to the newspapers.

Will post it tomorrow.
 

watson

Banned
Frank Woolley nominated his ATG XI in 1936 and not unexpectently he copped plenty of criticism for leaving out Bradman and WG Grace. Woolley cites Bradman's supposed weakness on rain affected wickets, but I suspect that he didn't like Bradman's pragmatic risk-free approach to batting. This sentiment wasn't unusual for 'Golden Age' cricketers, and even old timers like Archie MacLaren once remarked, "I wouldn't give you sixpence for a bat like that" after seeing Bradman at the crease for the first time.

One of the critics was J.C. Davis, then President of the NSW Cricket Association. It is interesting to see that even as late as the mid 1930s many experts still favoured many 19th century players. Fred Spofforth was consistently held up as the greatest pace bowler of all-time by Australians and English enthusiasts alike, and often preferred over Richardson, Gregory, Macdonald, Constantine and Larwood.

Very few people thought to leave out Trumper or Ranji, and Sutcliffe rarely made a 2nd XI despite being a very successful contemporary opener. Jack Hobbs was assumed to be his master.


WOOLLEY AS CRICKETS ICONOCLAST

Throws W. G. Grace and Don Bradman Into Discard


By J. C. DAVIS ('Not Out'), 14 May 1936

FRANK WOOLLEY, entering the field of cricket authorship, creates an anomalous diversion. His selection of a world's cricket team, covering all periods, is iconoclastic. It is refreshing, and impishly unreasoning, since he casts the greatest all-round cricketer of all time, W. G. Grace, the Goliath aside, and with him thrusts Don Bradman the wonder of our time.

In explaining that Bradman has not been a success after rain, Woolley is on soft ground! Perhaps he means sticky wickets, that is, turf affected by rain, and then rendered sticky by the sun. But if he means actually what he says; that is, wickets after rain has fallen, FW makes a very wide miss. If sticky wickets are meant, then how many batsmen living to-day have proved their powers on them? We do not see those wickets in first-class cricket in Australia now that the pitch is protected. If Bradman had the right experience on them then he would master their idiosyncrasies as he has mastered every other problem in batting. Victor Trumper and Johnny Tyldesley were the world's masters in their countries on volcanic pitches of that sort.

Frank Woolley's team is;

Trumper
Hobbs
Ranjitsinhji
J. T. Tyldesley
Macartney
J. R.Mason, capt (a fellow cricketer of Kent)
F. R. Foster
Oldfield
Larwood
S. F. Barnes
Blythe


THE BEST EVER

Rarely will you find two cricketers agreeing on any eleven as the world's best.

The following would be as great and 'gutzy' combination of batting, bowling, and fielding, linked with high grade leadership as any that could be named. They are mentioned in the order of batting;

W. G. Grace,
J. B. Hobbs
V. Trumper
D. G. Bradman
K. S. Ranjitsinhji
M. A. Noble (capt.)
W. W. Armstrong
R. Peel
W. A. Oldfield
F. R. Spofforth
S. F. Barnes

This would exclude six whom Frank Woolley puts into his eleven. In giving the leadership to J. R. Mason, the Kentish all-rounder, who visited Australia once, he names one who never captained England. This selection of world teams has always been fascinating to cricketers. It 'gets' them, though the youngsters are unable to assess from personal knowledge the actual qualities of the old players such as W. G. Grace and even Victor Trumper.

A youthful first grade player said to me a few days ago: "How is it that the batting averages of Don Bradman are ever so much greater than those of W. G. Grace and Victor Trumper; and yet old cricketers place Grace and Trumper so high on the list of the greatest ever?"

I countered by asking him, "How is it that so many critics to day are saying that O'Reilly and Grimmett are the best ever, yet their figures are not so impressive as those of Spofforth, Turner, Peel, Lohmann and other men of high distinction in Test cricket?"

MAYBE JUST AS STRONG

A second eleven of the world might actually be just as formidable as the first with every man a luminary and an outstanding champion under English conditions. Such a team might be;

C. B. Fry
W. Bardsley
A. C. MacLaren
C. G. Macartney
Hon. F.S. Jackson
G. A. Faulkner
F. R. Foster
A. A. Lilley
G. A. Lohmann
C. T. B. Turner
T. Richardson

Cricketers today might ask who George Lohmann was? A man of Surrey, he was a right-hand medium-pace bowler, perfect length, varied flight, pace, and length, master of the off and leg break with a real bowler's head. One of the most distinctive great bowlers International cricket has seen. He was the greatest slip fieldsman of his time — possibly of all time - and also a very fair punishing batsman who could be quite good at the pinch. He once captured 8 for 35 in a Test innings in Sydney.

ANOTHER GOOD ONE

A third team might be quite as powerful on any kind of wicket as either of the others. Such a one in the order of .batting might be:—

T. Hayward
W. H. Ponsford
C. Hill
W. L. Murdoch
J. T. Tyldesley
G. Giffen
J. B. King
G. H. Hirst
H. V. Hordern
J. M. BIackham
C. BIythe

Not many of the above are known to the younger cricketers of our times. But they were all champions of their types in their day, and would have been champions in any day. J. B. King was the American fast bowler and batsman. C. Blythe was as fine a left-hand slow medium bowler as we have seen. George Hirst another left-hand bowler, fast and round the wicket, was a great allrounder, for he was a high-grade right-hand batsman. W. L. Murdoch, Australian champion of the eighties would be the captain of this team. If they could enter the field against either, of the others there would be little or no odds against, them.

AND A FOURTH

Having picked three teams, think of the magnificent players not included. Could we not select an eleven from those who would have practically a level chance of turning the victory with any of them. Here is such a team:—

H. Sutcliffe
Arthur Shrewsbury
Stan McCabe
W. R. Hammond
George Headley
V. S. Ransford
L. N. Constantine
L. E. Ames
J. M. Gregory
W. J. O'Reilly
J. J. Ferris

The above teams are named for English conditions. And yet excluded ones include W. Lockwood, wonderful fast bowler, Harold Larwood, the fastest test bowler of recent years, E. A. McDonald, the fast-bowling partner of J. M: Gregory and Woolley himself, another great all-rounder.

As an author Frank Woolley has turned on controversial torrents by omitting Don Bradman and W. G. Grace. The waves of this pleasant little controversy will sweep right round the world and create no end of entertainment. Readers are invited to send us their views on this captivating armchair topic. Wo will make room for their opinions, if not too lengthy.

14 May 1936 - WOOLLEY AS CRICKET'S ICONOCLAST - Trove
 
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Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Interesting to read these early era teams, from a pre-internet/TV (and there probably weren't many cricket books printed either). Selections must have been made only on players seen or word of mouth, and stats wouldn't have come into account much at all.
 

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