The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[the big bambino]

Haha Blythe and Mason ... na mean? Selected because Kent - that's all. Tbf Blythe is a contender but Mason is a joke surely. I'm firming on the suspicion Woolley imbued Ames with his overt Kentish pride. Little else could explain Ames' preference for Freeman over Grimmett.

 

[smash84]

Watson on a roll. Fascinating reading this

 

[watson]

Interesting to read these early era teams, from a pre-internet/TV (and there probably weren't many cricket books printed either). Selections must have been made only on players seen or word of mouth, and stats wouldn't have come into account much at all.

I don't think that's quite true. Sure Statsguru didn't exist but Wisden has been around a long time, and stats and figures have always been quoted to some extent. They're an intrinsic part of the game.

Also, everyone read the newspaper for their news and opinion, so the general public were well exposed to numerous cricket writers using numbers to explain their point in a more rational kind of way.

Will dig up a really nice newspaper piece on Fred Spofforth (written in 1888) to illustrate the quality of infomation that was out there even then.

(Unfortunately turning the scanned image of a newspaper into type with all the correct letters and words in the right order takes time - Ys come out as Vs, Bs as 8s, that sort of thing)


EDIT: See 'CLASSIC Opinion Pieces....' thread

 

[AndrewB]

Haha Blythe and Mason ... na mean? Selected because Kent - that's all. Tbf Blythe is a contender but Mason is a joke surely. I'm firming on the suspicion Woolley imbued Ames with his overt Kentish pride. Little else could explain Ames' preference for Freeman over Grimmett.

Woolley was presumably watching Mason play for Kent around the turn of the century when he (Woolley) was a schoolboy, so there could well be a degree of hero-worship, especially as Mason's FC figures around then were very impressive - over the 4 seasons from 1898-1901 he scored 6000 runs at 40 and took 370 wickets at 20, while captaining the side.

 

[Victor Ian]

Watson on a roll. Fascinating reading this

Yeah. Watson has killed it today. I'm 2 hours in and have still not started to actually work.

That last one sounds so much like so many posts in this thread. Here's my first, 2nd, 3rd etc blaa blaa blaa.

I get the impression that back then, a huge emphasis was placed on picking a team with serious all round ability. They were concerned with having 7+ bowlers and 8+ batsmen. Maybe it's a false impression but I've seen that sentiment a few times in old timer's teams.

 

[honestbharani]

Eoin Morgan includes MS Dhoni, Anil Kumble in his All Time XI; leaves out Sachin Tendulkar



Do like the look of that side.. A spinner short maybe?

 

[harsh.ag]

This is probably an eleven I really want to watch

Barry Richards
WG Grace
Don Bradman
Viv Richards
Garfield Sobers
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Wasim Akram
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne
Muttiah Muralitharan

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Anyone fancy doing an England XI from the EU years? Their entire Test career has to have been between January 1st 1973 and June 23rd 2016. I was going to but couldn't be bothered.

 

[jimmy101]

Just off the top of my head.

Gooch c
Trescothick
Gower
Pietersen
Thorpe
Stewart +
Botham
Flintoff
Swann
Gough
Fraser

There's probably a glaring omission there somewhere.

 

[harsh.ag]

England XI: The EU Years

Gooch (c)
Stewart
Gower
Thorpe
Pietersen
Botham
Flintoff
Prior +
Swann
Gough
Fraser

Edit: No Broad and Anderson (and Root).

 

[Red]

EU years- all rounder fest

Gooch
Cook
Stewart
Gower
Pietersen
Root
Botham
Flintoff
Prior +
Swann
Anderson

 

[Red]

This is probably an eleven I really want to watch

Barry Richards
WG Grace
Don Bradman
Viv Richards
Garfield Sobers
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Wasim Akram
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne
Muttiah Muralitharan

Barry Richards
Brian Lara
Viv Richards
Mark Waugh
Keith Miller
Garfield Sobers
Syed Kirmani +
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Michael Holding
Dennis Lillee

 

[Lillian Thomson]

EU years- all rounder fest

Gooch
Cook
Stewart
Gower
Pietersen
Root
Botham
Flintoff
Prior +
Swann
Anderson

I'm not saying anyone can't make up their own criteria but going by my original rules Anderson, Root and Cook will have to be replaced as soon as they play another Test.

 

[Red]

I'm not saying anyone can't make up their own criteria but going by my original rules Anderson, Root and Cook will have to be replaced as soon as they play another Test.

Correct you are, and dumb I am.

Gooch
Stewart
Gower
Thorpe
Pietersen
Botham
Flintoff
Prior +
Swann
Gough
Harmison

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I might as well join in.

Gooch
Stewart
Gower
Pietersen
Thorpe
Botham
Flintoff
Swann
Russell
Gough
Fraser

I still can't bring myself to pick a team without a proper keeper.

 

[Prince EWS]

I might as well join in.

Gooch
Stewart
Gower
Pietersen
Thorpe
Botham
Flintoff
Swann
Russell
Gough
Fraser

I still can't bring myself to pick a team without a proper keeper.

You're pretty well equipped to do it in a side that contains both Flintoff and Botham anyway, tbf.

 

[Dawood Ahmad]

I might as well join in.

Gooch
Stewart
Gower
Pietersen
Thorpe
Botham
Flintoff
Swann
Russell
Gough
Fraser

I still can't bring myself to pick a team without a proper keeper.

I can't remember if a team ever became great without a proper keeper

 

[jimmy101]

Edit: Nevermind.

Seems a lot of people here really believe in the value of Stewart as a stand alone batsman. Was he really all that much better than Trescothick?

 

[bagapath]

Skippers XI

G. Smith
M. Taylor
Ponting
Border
Llloyd
S. Waugh
Imran
Dhoni +
S.Pollock
Benaud
Walsh

 

[jimmy101]

In the spirit of Frank Wooley I figure I might as well thrown down an 'A' team of EU era Englishmen.

Strauss
Atherton c
Vaughan
Trott
Smith
Collingwood
Prior +
Dilley
Edmonds
Caddick
Harmison

And a 'B' team

Butcher
C Broad
Hussain c
Lamb
Hick
Gatting
Russell +
DeFreitas
Hoggard
Jones
Panesar

The 'B' team is missing an all-rounder however.