Best ever Limited Overs batsman ever, 32 man knockout tournament, tourney thread.

[Red]

Waugh over AB

So?

 

[Noble One]

Viv Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
AB De Villiers
Michael Bevan

 

[jaideep]

Brian Lara
Virat Kohli
AB De Villiers
Michael Bevan

 

[kyear2]

Viv Richard vs Brian Lara

Sachin Tendulkar vs Virat Kohli

AB De Villiers vs Mark Waugh

Michael Bevan vs Dean Jones

This for me as well.

 

[Coronis]

Lara
Kohli
Waugh
Jones

 

[weldone]

Lara
Kohli
Waugh
Jones

Ya that's the correct list of players who'll be losing the quarterfinals.

 

[Hurricane]

Viv Richard vs Brian Lara

Sachin Tendulkar vs Virat Kohli

AB De Villiers vs Mark Waugh

Michael Bevan vs Dean Jones

This

Also - why so few votes for Deano. I accept Bevan was going to take this match up but it should be a close fight.

Dean Jones was godly in ODIs,

 

[harsh.ag]

Abbas is vastly underrated in ODIs. Would rate him above everyone bar Viv, Sachin, ABdV, Kohli and Ponting.

 

[CricAddict]

Viv, Sachin, AB , Bevan

 

[weldone]

Abbas is vastly underrated in ODIs. Would rate him above everyone bar Viv, Sachin, ABdV, Kohli and Ponting.

ya Abbas losing to Waugh was so wrong

 

[kyear2]

Lara
Kohli
Waugh
Jones

You really don't like Viv do u.

 

[AldoRaine18]

ya Abbas losing to Waugh was so wrong

Really wasn't. Waugh in 1996 WC was phenomenal with the bat throughout. As a specialist batsman alone he has done more in ODIs than Abbas, let alone when you consider what brings in the field and with the ball.

 

[harsh.ag]

Really wasn't. Waugh in 1996 WC was phenomenal with the bat throughout. As a specialist batsman alone he has done more in ODIs than Abbas, let alone when you consider what brings in the field and with the ball.

Abbas had an SR of 84 in the 70s and early 80s at an average of 47. Phenomenol record. Almost the same as Viv's record.

 

[AldoRaine18]

Abbas had an SR of 84 in the 70s and early 80s at an average of 47. Phenomenol record. Almost the same as Viv's record.

Had a similar discussion with watson earlier, I find it really hard to rate most batsmen from the early ODI era. Viv and perhaps Greenidge aside I rarely consider them in ATG discussions. Of course it's comparing eras and everything that comes with it. For me the ODI era really kicked off in 1992 with that WC and we saw what was the turnaround in terms of tactics and mentality. Today's players like Kohli will chase 8+ RPO for a period of 15-20 overs with their eyes closed. I highly doubt the mentality of players of that era would ever allow them to play that way. Players who were more about hit a boundary and take a single and that's a great over. It's day and night and I don't agree that just because conditions are batsmen friendly right now all these players will automatically adapt to them. It takes a massive shift in mentality and attitude. It takes changes in your fundamentals as a cricketer. It takes playing shots you'd never do in 99% situations back then, etc. Look at what Ponting did in 2003. He could have easily stopped a few runs short and that was still a winning total, say somewhere around 300-310 but he **** on us and gave us 359 to chase, at that time no batting team would attempt to chase that. Now, any team would attempt to chase 400 in 50 overs. What will the likes of Abbas do looking at 7-8 RRPO for the next 35 or so overs? Of course, entirely hypothetical but for me I don't buy that they will automatically be as drilled as the current lot are in doing something like that. The addition of T20 has also made a massive difference in how teams approach ODIs. Even a lot of 90s top players e.g. Bevan would take time to adapt in the current era. An entirely new environment has been set up. Yes we have short boundaries and flat pitches and what not but we have batsman actually taking advantage of that, which in itself is a massive task. It's not like they can still score 250 which was a good enough total during late 90s and be considered okay. Now, anything below 6.5-7 RPO is considered a failure and you have to do that every single game, not just flat tracks. You just know the chasing team will look at the RRPO and go out smashing. You need a lot of extra runs than you used to.

Hate comparing eras, really, but in these discussions it is hard to escape that.

 

[weldone]

It's amazing that with all the talk about 'chasing 8+ an over for 20 overs with eyes closed' the average first innings ODI score for the last 4 years is still around 250 only.

 

[harsh.ag]

Had a similar discussion with watson earlier, I find it really hard to rate most batsmen from the early ODI era. Viv and perhaps Greenidge aside I rarely consider them in ATG discussions.

What will the likes of Abbas do looking at 7-8 RRPO for the next 35 or so overs? Of course, entirely hypothetical but for me I don't buy that they will automatically be as drilled as the current lot are in doing something like that. The addition of T20 has also made a massive difference in how teams approach ODIs. Even a lot of 90s top players e.g. Bevan would take time to adapt in the current era.

Hate comparing eras, really, but in these discussions it is hard to escape that.

Agreed it's hard to compare. But that's why Abbas' record stands out so much. Hardly anyone scored at that pace in his era. Viv and Lloyd probably the only ones. Greenidge had an SR of 64.

That's why you pick the ones with the highest SR (along with a good average and overall record) from that era. They will be the likeliest to succeed in all environs.

 

[Daemon]

You pretty much can't compare eras imo. You have to compare players with their contemporaries and it's hard to argue guys like Abbas and Viv weren't ahead.

If they grew up in this era being exposed to the mentality of todays LO cricket, I'm sure they'd still be just as successful as they were back then. Similarly if you took someone like Kohli and made him learn his cricket in 80s-90s, he'd probably be just as successful but just with different numbers.

 

[honestbharani]

Viv and Abbas were the Kohli and AB of their time... If they had an IPL then, they would have rocked up at 3 and 4 for the Royal Challengers Birmingham...

 

[vcs]

Had a similar discussion with watson earlier, I find it really hard to rate most batsmen from the early ODI era. Viv and perhaps Greenidge aside I rarely consider them in ATG discussions. Of course it's comparing eras and everything that comes with it. For me the ODI era really kicked off in 1992 with that WC and we saw what was the turnaround in terms of tactics and mentality. Today's players like Kohli will chase 8+ RPO for a period of 15-20 overs with their eyes closed. I highly doubt the mentality of players of that era would ever allow them to play that way. Players who were more about hit a boundary and take a single and that's a great over. It's day and night and I don't agree that just because conditions are batsmen friendly right now all these players will automatically adapt to them. It takes a massive shift in mentality and attitude. It takes changes in your fundamentals as a cricketer. It takes playing shots you'd never do in 99% situations back then, etc. Look at what Ponting did in 2003. He could have easily stopped a few runs short and that was still a winning total, say somewhere around 300-310 but he **** on us and gave us 359 to chase, at that time no batting team would attempt to chase that. Now, any team would attempt to chase 400 in 50 overs. What will the likes of Abbas do looking at 7-8 RRPO for the next 35 or so overs? Of course, entirely hypothetical but for me I don't buy that they will automatically be as drilled as the current lot are in doing something like that. The addition of T20 has also made a massive difference in how teams approach ODIs. Even a lot of 90s top players e.g. Bevan would take time to adapt in the current era. An entirely new environment has been set up. Yes we have short boundaries and flat pitches and what not but we have batsman actually taking advantage of that, which in itself is a massive task. It's not like they can still score 250 which was a good enough total during late 90s and be considered okay. Now, anything below 6.5-7 RPO is considered a failure and you have to do that every single game, not just flat tracks. You just know the chasing team will look at the RRPO and go out smashing. You need a lot of extra runs than you used to.

Hate comparing eras, really, but in these discussions it is hard to escape that.

But then why would you consider Greenidge with a lower strike rate? For me that was the stat that made me skeptical of ranking him alongside Viv etc. Didn't know Abbas's strike-rate is 87, that's extremely impressive at an average of 47.

 

[AldoRaine18]

But then why would you consider Greenidge with a lower strike rate? For me that was the stat that made me skeptical of ranking him alongside Viv etc. Didn't know Abbas's strike-rate is 87, that's extremely impressive at an average of 47.

Yes, all that applies to Greenidge as well, in theory. When it comes to that era, World Cups are what I use, at max to give someone any credit. GG scored at an ave of 84 in 79. Made 50s in 3/4 innings including a 100. But overall, yeah, I respect what they did to initiate the format and build the initial stages with a few standing above the rest, but I can't see them perfecting that format to the lengths and demands current players have. Especially in a typical 330+ high scoring game where you have to score at that pace for lengths of the game I can see them falling short.

I think this is enough for a hypothetical discussion.