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Is Dhoni greatest OdI cricketer off all-time

TNT

TNT

Banned
Burgey said:
They won a WC under him mate. Fmd he can't have done too much wrong.

Did Ponting's captaincy make Australia greater than the sum of its parts in odis? I don't think so, because he had great players. LO captaincy is pretty formulaic, like the game itself. You can change up your bowlers but really, how they execute their plans will have a lot more to do with the result than the actual funkiness of the field placings etc.
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I didn't say he did anything wrong, he was like any other captain and I didn't see any quality in him that most other captains didn't possess
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
TNT said:
I think with a good captain you will get consistency from your team, a team that plays consistently is likely to be well managed and less likely to be relying on luck and conditions. I couldent see a quality in Dhoni's captaincy that made the team greater than the sum of its parts.
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Good thing that India under Dhoni have been exactly this, then.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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His calm demeanour has also helped immeasurably in pressure situations in ODIs. It has to rub off on the rest of the team when it looks like the pressure isn't getting to your captain.
 
Jono

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
marc71178 said:
Not just won a World Cup, but did so with that bowling "attack".
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Yeah I mean he had Nehra in the 2011 semi and Sreesanth and Munaf in the 2011 final. Hardly world-beaters. Nehra actually was good in the semi and would have played the final bar injury, but he basically relied on Zaheer who was quality, and Ashwin and Yuvraj who knew the conditions.

I know we're talking ODIs, but a guy who has won a T20 WC, a ODI WC, and gone undefeated up til a semi in another ODI WC (losing to the eventual champions), with a team that was never ever classified as an ATG team, has surely been doing something right? I mean India have always had a pretty good limited overs team since 2007-08, but it was never the quality of Australia 2003 or 2007. I think winning all ICC trophies with that
 
Jono

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
OverratedSanity said:
His calm demeanour has also helped immeasurably in pressure situations in ODIs. It has to rub off on the rest of the team when it looks like the pressure isn't getting to your captain.
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CT final best example of this I think, in the field at least. He just kept his cool when it looked like Ishant was going to lose us the game with wides. Defending 129 in 20 overs (rain shortened game) was just ****ing epic.
 
Furball

Furball

Evil Scotsman
grecian said:
In the end, Vivs strike-rate in One-day cricket without field restrictions, boundaries brought in, better bat technology was so ahead of his contemporaries it was almost pure genius, oh and he averaged 47 whilst doing it. Look at other great players of the time like Javed and Greg Chappell. His decent bowling and top-class fielding almost seems an irrelevance compared to that.

gawd knows what his strike-rate would be today when you can use the bats to short-arm jab a six, blimey all his defensive shots would have probably gone for 4.
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Yeah it's why I'm curious as to whether standardised strike rates could be a thing. Viv's would probably be insane.
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
honestbharani said:
@ Burgey's post:

Yeah but he is one of the few from the wheel who was hindered more by natural fitness than any stupid changes to the style of bowling etc. He and Zak were definitely capable of being much much more than they ended up being, and the main reason was their fitness. Contrast that to an Ishant or Umesh who are seemingly fit all the time but refuse to learn a damn thing about bowling.
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Ishant is learning now
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Dunno what TNT is on about tbh... It is pretty straightforward that unless you have the golden generation teams like the Windies of the 80s and Aussies of the noughties, you need a certain type of captain and leader to make the best use of the resources in his side and Dhoni was very definitely that. Imagine Crowe in the 1992 WC and imagine the same over a period of 8 or 9 years and that's Dhoni for you. And we became one of the better chasing sides of all time under him and that is something amazing. Plus there is the unquantifiable cultural aspect of how cricket and players are treated in India and how Dhoni's calm assured leadership helped so many through such periods. Remember he was the one who stuck with Jadeja and Rohit and who gave Kohli such chances to bat in the top order when no one expected them to be anything. He has his flaws in tests but fmd, in ODIs, he is one of the ATG captains.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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honestbharani said:
Also, I am not sure why what is so great about Ponting either. To me, he is not in the running for my all time XI simply because the role he played has been played better by Viv before him and Kohli (and perhaps KW and Smith in the future) after. If you are asking if he is in the top ODI batsmen of all time, sure, he is. But an ATG XI? No, thank you.
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Fielding
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
TNT said:
Winning more matches away than losing.
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I haven't seen stats comparing him to other captains' win/loss record but he has a lot of silverware compared to a lot of other captains without the benefit of having anywhere near a good bowling attack as some of the other ones.
 
9

91Jmay

International Coach
Yeah, it is probably easier to be proactive and more aggressive with McGrath, Warne, Lee or Marshall, Holding, Garner, Roberts than S Sreesanth and Munaf Patel.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Jono said:
Crazy to say Ponting isn't in the running for ATG XI. Come on now.
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I am not exactly saying that though. I am just saying that when it comes to picking the actual XI, I wont probably need him as there are two others who do the same role as him, better. He will be in my XV for sure as the first back up middle order batsman. Of course, Virat's career is nowhere near its end, so it is probably unfair to compare him to someone who's career is done. Remember how Ponting was next only to Bradman at a certain stage of his career? So I am sure it is still possible for Ponting to end up being a better ODI batsman than Virat. But if I am allowed to pick the Virat of today, then I will surely not need Punter in my ATG ODI XI.
 
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