Is Dhoni greatest OdI cricketer off all-time

[Adders]

Hoping Australia doesn't get overawed being in an away series decider against this all time great side. I think our lads would be happy just to be on the same field

Can't believe non-nz supporters are forgetting the immortal Trent Boult and Tim Southee when talking about all time odi bowlers.

Looks like you may have a bee in your bonnet here Burgey........is there something you wish to discuss???

 

[Burgey]

No mate, I'm just humbled to be able to watch this current NZ side go around. In any format.

 

[Adders]

Pure Gold........love ya man.

 

[Jono]

Never really rated his captaincy in ODI's, actually thought it hindered the team at times certainly not a great ODI captain IMO.

I dunno, even if you take out the 2011 WC, he's won a Champions Trophy and got to a WC semi (undefeated until the semi loss) on foreign soil without a real top flight bowling lineup at all.

 

[vcs]

Starc could be making himself a case as well. And Murali was still a fantastic ODI bowler till the very end. Rules are definitely more in favour of the batsman these days. But the flipside of that argument is - there used to be more bowlers with ATG-qualifying stats earlier like Hadlee, Imran, Waqar, Donald etc. So do we now start to question whether they were actually all that?

 

[TNT]

I dunno, even if you take out the 2011 WC, he's won a Champions Trophy and got to a WC semi (undefeated until the semi loss) on foreign soil without a real top flight bowling lineup at all.

Against teams that also didn't have top flight bowling line ups, but hes not the only captain to win a world cup or a champions trophy without a top flight bowling line up is he.

 

[vcs]

He also won an Asia Cup in 2010 and a CB Triseries in 2008.

One thing you can rarely say about India's ODI side under Dhoni is that they didn't perform up to their potential (especially in big tournaments).

 

[vcs]

The finishing and chasing arguments I agree are over rated. But that is just human bias.. You tend to value the finish way more than the journey. Now this does not mean that Dhoni or Kohli are not ATG batsmen.
And you don't have to go as far back as Garner. You do have McGrath and confirmed God Wasim.

There's also Brett Lee and Shaun Pollock. Last few years a truly great ODI bowler probably hasn't emerged, and the leading bowler of his generation hasn't shown his best stuff in that format.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Against teams that also didn't have top flight bowling line ups, but hes not the only captain to win a world cup or a champions trophy without a top flight bowling line up is he.

What about his captaincy do you think isn't good in ODIs? In tests, his dumb moments where he goes negative have cost us several big games, and some of his tactis are just braindead, but those same crazy ideas work more often in ODIs and his defensive approach helps dry up runs so effectively in the middle overs. He's legitimately very good.

 

[vcs]

Also, we do take into account the fact batting averages have gone up in recent years, otherwise, Dilshan, Sanga etc would be borderline ATGs. The bar for batsmen is set close to 50 with a ~90 SR these days.

 

[indiaholic]

Can't measure most captains by how many games they have won but if you actually watch Dhoni's captaincy during the middle overs, it's masterful. As soon as a wicket falls, the run choke begins and he has the patience to wait it out while the new batsman is taking his time to settle in.. Then the pressure of the dot balls starts to build up and they give away their wickets.. This strategy is why Dhoni values players like Jadeja so much. Jadeja can keep on bowling at the same spot for hours..

 

[Daemon]

Yeah, India's strategy with the ball in the last few years has always been about damage control. This is especially necessary when you have new ball bowlers like Yadav of course, who let the openers get off to a flier every game.

 

[Burgey]

I didn't even know Nehra was still alive until I saw one of the T20s a couple of weeks ago. Remember when he was going to be the next great quick? Instead he just became part of the wheel.

 

[TNT]

Can't measure most captains by how many games they have won but if you actually watch Dhoni's captaincy during the middle overs, it's masterful. As soon as a wicket falls, the run choke begins and he has the patience to wait it out while the new batsman is taking his time to settle in.. Then the pressure of the dot balls starts to build up and they give away their wickets.. This strategy is why Dhoni values players like Jadeja so much. Jadeja can keep on bowling at the same spot for hours..

Could use that sentence to describe almost every captain, I have always felt that Dhoni is far to passive with his field and has let many matches slip because of that. I also don't think Dhoni can turn a match and is always waiting for the opposition to make a mistake more than challenging the opposition and forcing the error.

 

[honestbharani]

@ Burgey's post:

Yeah but he is one of the few from the wheel who was hindered more by natural fitness than any stupid changes to the style of bowling etc. He and Zak were definitely capable of being much much more than they ended up being, and the main reason was their fitness. Contrast that to an Ishant or Umesh who are seemingly fit all the time but refuse to learn a damn thing about bowling.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Could use that sentence to describe almost every captain, I have always felt that Dhoni is far to passive with his field and has let many matches slip because of that. I also don't think Dhoni can turn a match and is always waiting for the opposition to make a mistake more than challenging the opposition and forcing the error.

Passive is the last thing I'd use to describe his field changes. If anything he can be accused of the exact opposite (ie) being schizophrenic and following the ball.

 

[honestbharani]

Could use that sentence to describe almost every captain, I have always felt that Dhoni is far to passive with his field and has let many matches slip because of that. I also don't think Dhoni can turn a match and is always waiting for the opposition to make a mistake more than challenging the opposition and forcing the error.

There are different ways of captaining a LO side and he is a defensive captain but that strategy has worked much much more often than not and the proof is in the records. Many captains attack overzealously when new batsmen come in as well and end up conceding the advantage to the opposition. There is no hard and fast rule to captaincy.

 

[Burgey]

Can't help but love Nostrils. Hope he turns out a good 'un

 

[TNT]

There are different ways of captaining a LO side and he is a defensive captain but that strategy has worked much much more often than not and the proof is in the records. Many captains attack overzealously when new batsmen come in as well and end up conceding the advantage to the opposition. There is no hard and fast rule to captaincy.

I think with a good captain you will get consistency from your team, a team that plays consistently is likely to be well managed and less likely to be relying on luck and conditions. I couldent see a quality in Dhoni's captaincy that made the team greater than the sum of its parts.

 

[Burgey]

They won a WC under him mate. Fmd he can't have done too much wrong.

Did Ponting's captaincy make Australia greater than the sum of its parts in odis? I don't think so, because he had great players. LO captaincy is pretty formulaic, like the game itself. You can change up your bowlers but really, how they execute their plans will have a lot more to do with the result than the actual funkiness of the field placings etc.