CW decides the greatest All-Rounder ever, 64 man knockout tournament: Voting Thread

[steve132]

Sobers. He is simply the most versatile player the game has ever seen.

 

[Victor Ian]

Is there a thread around on a Sobers analysis, particularly his bowling. I once concluded his bowling was worthy of him being best ever all rounder....but have since forgotten why.

 

[smash84]

Is there a thread around on a Sobers analysis, particularly his bowling. I once concluded his bowling was worthy of him being best ever all rounder....but have since forgotten why.

Most threads analyzing his bowling are not very flattering too him. He was versatile for sure but he wasn't an ATG batsman and ATG bowler rolled into one. There's no doubt Miller's bowling >>> Sobers's bowling. Just like the other way around for their batting.

 

[smash84]

Sobers. One of the prime contenders for second best batsman, gun fielder, versatile bowler, and produced several amazing all-round series in his peak period. Also, I looked up his bowling workload a while back and noticed that he bowled more balls per match than someone like Imran Khan who was a frontline bowler. Sure, he also bowled spin which is easier on the body, but it's still a huge workload for a player to put into his weaker discipline.

Sobers was never really a quick bowler so he would definitely bowl a lot of overs per match especially if there weren't too many good bowlers in the side.

 

[honestbharani]

Sobers was never really a quick bowler so he would definitely bowl a lot of overs per match especially if there weren't too many good bowlers in the side.

Not really. Many reports have mentioned he could crank up the pace when he wanted, he just chose not to, given that his side had that type of bowlers who were specialists, and he was more important for the team as a batsman. Plus as the only decent spinner around, he could ease up the workload on their better bowlers as well as not overwork himself that he is tired when he has to bat. I am not saying he is an ATG bowler but there is a reason why he bowled a number of match winning and innings breaking spells.

 

[smash84]

Not really. Many reports have mentioned he could crank up the pace when he wanted, he just chose not to, given that his side had that type of bowlers who were specialists, and he was more important for the team as a batsman. Plus as the only decent spinner around, he could ease up the workload on their better bowlers as well as not overwork himself that he is tired when he has to bat. I am not saying he is an ATG bowler but there is a reason why he bowled a number of match winning and innings breaking spells.

I don't know about him cranking it up but it couldn't be for any reasonably longish spell i reckon. He would probably be above military medium for sure but i don't think that even in his quicker spells he would be as quick as let's say a regular Kapil

 

[honestbharani]

Guess you have not read enough about his bowling is all I can say.


He won't be an Akhtar or Lee but I am pretty sure he must have been Fast Medium to almost Fast at best. Which is good enough given he was a very good exponent of swing, from all accounts.

 

[smash84]

Guess you have not read enough about his bowling is all I can say.


He won't be an Akhtar or Lee but I am pretty sure he must have been Fast Medium to almost Fast at best. Which is good enough given he was a very good exponent of swing, from all accounts.

Yep, I haven't read too much of his bowling but I am also basing it off videos like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIPYhuVyBko

 

[honestbharani]

Pretty sure you can't tell the pace with those videos and fwiw, 1973 was almost towards the end of his career... Its like seeing McGrath bowl in 2006 and claim he never had any pace.

 

[smash84]

Pretty sure you can't tell the pace with those videos and fwiw, 1973 was almost towards the end of his career... Its like seeing McGrath bowl in 2006 and claim he never had any pace.

yeah but I don't recall McG losing too much pace throughout his career. His pace was always between 80 to 85 mph (usually closer to the 80 mph part of the spectrum).

Sobers wasn't like Waqar that he had express pace and lost it over the course of his career. He was either bowling medium pace or spin.

 

[honestbharani]

again... I think you are missing the point. There are a number of bowlers who bowl 85-90 mph and then drop back to 80-85 towards the latter half of their careers. McGrath himself was one. I feel Sobers belongs to that category than an out and out medium-fast bowler that you are depicting him to be. Just about everything anyone has said or written about the man contradicts your view.

 

[smash84]

again... I think you are missing the point. There are a number of bowlers who bowl 85-90 mph and then drop back to 80-85 towards the latter half of their careers. McGrath himself was one. I feel Sobers belongs to that category than an out and out medium-fast bowler that you are depicting him to be. Just about everything anyone has said or written about the man contradicts your view.

You're missing my point. I don't think McGrath was an 85-90 mph at the start who dropped his pace later and became 80-85 mph. McG was consistently between 80-85 mph throughout his career. Similarly with Sobers. He was never really a quick bowler who dropped his pace. At best he was fast medium (which i believe is slower than medium fast?) but usually since he did bowl a fair bit of defensive overs so he would generally bowl medium pace (a shortened run up Chaminda Vaas comes to mind).

Edit: Plus there is footage of him on the internet which confirms my hypothesis. My point is that perhaps he did bowl a spell or two that were quite hostile but there isn't a lot of evidence to suggest that he could crank it up whenever he would like to.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Nah, McGrath definitely slowed down. He bowled 125-130 at times near the end.

 

[smash84]

Nah, McGrath definitely slowed down. He bowled 125-130 at times near the end.

Nah, he even bowled around 130 in the 1999-99 Lara series.

You probably didn't see him bowl too often.

 

[smash84]

I don't know where they got his average of 131 (i thought he was closer to 133-34 but he did bowl a lot of around 130 too )

Nocookies | The Australian

"I wish I could bowl that quick," said McGrath, who was at the ground promoting the McGrath Foundation, which raises money to place breast care nurses in communities across Australia.

McGrath's average bowling speed was "only" 131km/h. When he really stretched out, he nudged the needle up to 145km/h, which is around the pace of Pattinson's stock ball. Yet when Pattinson lets fly, as he did in the Melbourne Test, he is over 150km/h, into which only the seriously quick ever venture.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Sobers leads by 20 votes to 7.

 

[Red]

Have seen footage of Sobers bowling a couple of very decent bouncers in retaliation to Lillee.

 

[Red]

 

[smash84]

yep, that is decent paced bouncers. I still think that was rare given his usual bowling.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Out of Sobers 20 year Test career there was a period of about 8 years in the middle where he was a genuinely quick Test class fast bowler. He was never a Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Lillee etc by any stretch of the imagination, but he was still the best all-rounder ever.