**Official** Pakistan and England in the UAE 2015/16

[Spark]

decent effort to get in 27 overs in the session given the idiocy at the start

 

[Black_Warrior]

Good session for Pakistan. Could easily have been 82/0 just like it could easily have been 82/2

 

[Spark]

Yeah plus the main factor for me was that it was the last test match in a very gruelling (for Pakistan) season for Pakistan. They pretty much played NZ straight after the 2 tests against Australia and most of the players looked physically and mentally tired. They are not used to a long 5 match test series. Most of them have never even been part of a 4 match series.

Nah that wasn't the main factor at all. No one watching that delayed 2nd day could think of that as a remotely normal or predictive day of Test cricket. Everyone was mentally shot, but it pretty obviously had nothing to do with any usual cricket factors (and Pakistan were actually pretty unfortunate to have started that day batting, as I'm pretty sure that a collapse was guaranteed on that morning completely irrespective of who was batting or bowling)

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah plus the main factor for me was that it was the last test match in a very gruelling (for Pakistan) season for Pakistan. They pretty much played NZ straight after the 2 tests against Australia and most of the players looked physically and mentally tired. They are not used to a long 5 match test series. Most of them have never even been part of a 4 match series.

Really?

 

[Spark]

I mean, Pakistan were way, way ahead after Day 1. Whatever mental tiredness they may have had kicked in pretty suddenly on Day 2. Almost as if there was some external factor at play...

 

[Black_Warrior]

I mean, Pakistan were way, way ahead after Day 1. Whatever mental tiredness they may have had kicked in pretty suddenly on Day 2. Almost as if there was some external factor at play...

I wasn't just talking about the batting though. In the field as well when McCullum was going crazy..they looked quite jaded and flat.

 

[Spark]

I wasn't just talking about the batting though. In the field as well when McCullum was going crazy..they looked quite jaded and flat.

Yeah, it was almost as if they didn't actually want to be on the field at all...

I mean, this is pretty obvious.

 

[hendrix]

I wasn't just talking about the batting though. In the field as well when McCullum was going crazy..they looked quite jaded and flat.

Yeah, it was almost as if they didn't actually want to be on the field at all...

I mean, this is pretty obvious.

sorry, but you're not having this.

Pakistan appealed vociferously and celebrated each wicket. They didn't want to be there by the end because they were getting smashed.

Also, NZ had dominated the second test so it wasn't exactly out of the character of the series.

 

[Black_Warrior]

sorry, but you're not having this.

Pakistan appealed vociferously and celebrated each wicket. They didn't want to be there by the end because they were getting smashed.

Also, NZ had dominated the second test so it wasn't exactly out of the character of the series.

Hey I don't disagree with that. According to me, they didn't want to be on the field because it was the 5th test match and they were already out of it.

 

[Spark]

sorry, but you're not having this.

Pakistan appealed vociferously and celebrated each wicket. They didn't want to be there by the end because they were getting smashed.

Also, NZ had dominated the second test so it wasn't exactly out of the character of the series.

What? Both sides more or less admitted that they didn't really want to be there, but felt they had to -- plenty of the NZ side were on record saying that they weren't really thinking about the game at all, but doing their job as professionals and (more importantly) as focal points for the game at that particularly juncture. They're professionals, of course they appealed and celebrated. That's not really the same thing.

I genuinely cannot see how you can look at the 2nd day of that Test and draw serious predictive cricketing conclusions out of that. It was a genuine one-off, which is of course what made it so unique and cathartic.

 

[Bahnz]

Nz actually fidn't appeal or celebrate at all on that 2nd day. Combined with the empty stadium it was the eeriest atmosphere I've ever seen.

 

[Spark]

Nz actually fidn't appeal or celebrate at all on that 2nd day. Combined with the empty stadium it was the eeriest atmosphere I've ever seen.

Yeah it was creepy as ****. But as the game went on and it became more "normal", you could understand some of the usual rituals of the game coming back in. The appearance of normalcy, if not the substance. Certainly by the end it superficially "looked" like a usual Test match.

McCullum playing as he did was the main reason for that, of course. That game could so easily have petered out into awful collapse-offs as all the energy is just slowly sucked out of it if he'd holed out third ball or something.

EDIT: Anyway, this is detracting from my original point, which is that it's a bit silly to read anything into Pakistan's collapse on that 2nd day in terms of it being likely to be replicated here or anywhere else. They may well collapse again, but not like that.

 

[hendrix]

What? Both sides more or less admitted that they didn't really want to be there, but felt they had to -- plenty of the NZ side were on record saying that they weren't really thinking about the game at all, but doing their job as professionals and (more importantly) as focal points for the game at that particularly juncture. They're professionals, of course they appealed and celebrated. That's not really the same thing.

I genuinely cannot see how you can look at the 2nd day of that Test and draw serious predictive cricketing conclusions out of that. It was a genuine one-off, which is of course what made it so unique and cathartic.

Plenty of cricketing conclusions:
- Pak batting lineup has one or two heroes and a **** ton of passengers
- their tail is extremely weak
- Mark Craig enjoys bounce, which this pitch had a bit of
- McCullum playing freely is nasty. It's not like it didn't happen again in a couple of months
- KW is god
- Zulfiqur and Rahat's fitness is questionable, and when they're being smashed all over the park they don't adjust well
- Talha is awful
- the NZ bowlers, having made the adjustments in the second test, made an easy job of it with plenty of runs behind them.

I'm not saying that the emotion of the situation didn't have an impact. But all of the above is quite in line with what we know about the players/sides involved.

 

[hendrix]

EDIT: Anyway, this is detracting from my original point, which is that it's a bit silly to read anything into Pakistan's collapse on that 2nd day in terms of it being likely to be replicated here or anywhere else. They may well collapse again, but not like that.

I don't agree. swing bowling + a bloke who gives it a rip against the longest tail in world cricket.

 

[Bahnz]

Nah I tend to agree with Spark - at least with regard to the second morning. The Pakistani batsmen looked and played as tho they were mentally shot. Lots of slogs caught in the outfield and feeble prods to slip. After lunch I think both teams had there heads in it more, but then McCullum came out and just beasted it in the middle session, and thereafter Pakistan - having lost the script that worked so well for them in the first 3 tests - just folded.

 

[Spark]

I don't agree. swing bowling + a bloke who gives it a rip against the longest tail in world cricket.

You are joking, right? You actually think that 2nd day collapse was the primarily the result of normal cricketing processes?

That isn't how those batsmen got out at all. The majority of those wickets were brainless slogs and loose thrashes miles outside of off stump. As you'd expect from a batting lineup which isn't mentally switched on at all - and it's a hell of a lot easier to mindlessly bowl than it is to mindlessly bat...

 

[OverratedSanity]

I don't really think Pakistan's collapse to Craig was a one-off. This is Pakistan were talking about. There was nothing about that collapse that was beyond what Pakistan are capable of.

It was weird but I'm not sure I can put it all down to Pakistan not being there mentally because of the Hughes stuff.

 

[Black_Warrior]

EDIT: Anyway, this is detracting from my original point, which is that it's a bit silly to read anything into Pakistan's collapse on that 2nd day in terms of it being likely to be replicated here or anywhere else. They may well collapse again, but not like that.

Yeah but Pakistan are known for such collapses though.

1st Test: India v Pakistan at Chennai, Jan 28-31, 1999 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
Check out the second innings - Afridi batting on a century along with Salim Malik who was one of Pakistan's best batsmen in those conditions at that time


2nd Test: India v Pakistan at Kolkata, Mar 16-20, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo


This is once again another one in India which cost them the game in the first innings

These are just from the top of my head. I am sure there are more.

 

[Spark]

I don't really think Pakistan's collapse to Craig was a one-off. This is Pakistan were talking about. There was nothing about that collapse that was beyond what Pakistan are capable of.

This Pakistan don't tend to do that, though. It was absolutely out of character for them in that particular period in time, where calmness and solidity was their stock in trade, and there was a perfectly obvious and comprehensible reason why A led to B. Particularly if you watched it live.

Again: I don't think you can say that a collapse here is any more or less likely because they collapsed there because the circumstances which precipitated that collapse were so unique. There's just no correlation.

 

[hendrix]

Nah I tend to agree with Spark - at least with regard to the second morning. The Pakistani batsmen looked and played as tho they were mentally shot. Lots of slogs caught in the outfield and feeble prods to slip. After lunch I think both teams had there heads in it more, but then McCullum came out and just beasted it in the middle session, and thereafter Pakistan - having lost the script that worked so well for them in the first 3 tests - just folded.

You are joking, right? You actually think that 2nd day collapse was the primarily the result of normal cricketing processes?

That isn't how those batsmen got out at all. The majority of those wickets were brainless slogs and loose thrashes miles outside of off stump. As you'd expect from a batting lineup which isn't mentally switched on at all - and it's a hell of a lot easier to mindlessly bowl than it is to mindlessly bat...

Nope

- Azar, Younis, the top order apart from Hafeez were all out on the first day
- Misbah was caught behind of Southee early
- Hafeez was out slogging, sure, but he'd already made the small matter of 197 runs. By that stage they were 5 down.
- I'll give you Shafiq. Poor shot
- Sarfraz "that's the way he plays" Ahmed was actually out defending. 7 down, tail slogs out. Not exactly a novelty.

I kinda get what you're saying and they were freak circumstances, but it wasn't a freak outcome or performance.