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All-rounders with equal bowling/batting skill?

Agent Nationaux

Agent Nationaux

International Coach
Valer said:
James Faulkner is probably a decent shout. Obviously this is only in LOI / FC as in his only test (so far) he was somewhat better with the ball.
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Mohammad Hafeez. Rubbish in both.

Sammy also seems like someone who is equal in both batting and bowling.
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
harsh.ag said:
It is also misleading to only think of Botham's peak when thinking about him. For his last 50 games (half of his 102 match career), he scored 3 centuries and averaged 37 with the ball.

They had their peaks at different times, just because Botham's peak came sooner does not mean he was something special.

And re Kapil's and Imran's batting, Imran ended up quite a bit better by the time he finished.
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True in regard to Botham. I still believe he was definitely the best batsman out of the three. And nobody could change a game like Beefy. 5 wickets in an innings and a century 5 times. Nobody else comes close.
 
P

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
CricAddict said:
I think Shakib wins this. Has all the qualifications.

1. Merits place in the team on both batting and bowling alone. Crucial to the team in both.
2. Cannot determine which one is the better suit. Top six batsman and the main bowler.
3. Batting average exceeds the bowling average by a distance
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The whole 'gets in the side with batting and bowling' has always been a poor one, and certainly does not work in the case of Bangladesh but there is no team in the world that would not love to have Shakib, would be play a perfect role for the way so many sides are set up right now.
 
C

CaptainGrumpy

Banned
Pothas said:
The whole 'gets in the side with batting and bowling' has always been a poor one, and certainly does not work in the case of Bangladesh but there is no team in the world that would not love to have Shakib, would be play a perfect role for the way so many sides are set up right now.
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I'm pretty sure this is right. I cannot think of a test team he doesn't walk into running around at the moment.

As for ODI cricket, he is knocking on the door of ATG XI's. To boast a 4.30 economy in the modern game is nothing short of ridiculous. He is going at under 5's against all the leading nations and regularly bowls at the death. Incredible.
 
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C

CaptainGrumpy

Banned
91Jmay said:
Jason Holder is 34 with bat and 35 with ball at the moment in Tests.
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I will be surprised if Holder's bowling average does not decrease.

The question is whether his batting is that good, or if he merely got off to a flying start with the bat.
 
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Dan

Hall of Fame Member
CaptainGrumpy said:
I will be surprised if Holder's bowling average does not decrease.

The question is whether his batting is that good, or if he merely got off to a flying start with the bat.
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Honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see Holder's bowling stay pretty static, but for his batting to continue to improve.
 
C

CaptainGrumpy

Banned
Dan said:
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see Holder's bowling stay pretty static, but for his batting to continue to improve.
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He has played half his tests against SA and Australia where his bowling has averaged 50 and 40 respectively. Playing England and New Zealand brings that average down to 35. His batting against SA is 8, but at home it is 44, with an amazing average against Australia of 58, helped in that in two of those 4 innings, he was not out.

The not outs currently boost his average by 7 runs. If he moves up the batting order there will probably be less of them. His first class batting average is 24, and all his not outs have come at test level. His sole first class century is at test level. There is a strong case that his batting has improved from that first class average being low. That's why i say it is a question. But that bowling average, that I believe will come down when he plays weaker sides than SA and Aus, as well as improves as a bowler. He's fairly young and inexperienced.
 
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Dan

Hall of Fame Member
CaptainGrumpy said:
He has played half his tests against SA and Australia where his bowling has averaged 50 and 40 respectively. Playing England and New Zealand brings that average down to 35. His batting against SA is 8, but at home it is 44, with an amazing average against Australia of 58, helped in that in two of those 4 innings, he was not out.

The not outs currently boost his average by 7 runs. If he moves up the batting order there will probably be less of them. His first class batting average is 24, and all his not outs have come at test level. His sole first class century is at test level. There is a strong case that his batting has improved from that first class average being low. That's why i say it is a question. But that bowling average, that I believe will come down when he plays weaker sides than SA and Aus, as well as improves as a bowler. He's fairly young and inexperienced.
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I'm certainly not suggesting Holder is a bad bowler, just that in shouldering a heavy burden in a weak team, often on home decks that don't suit fast bowling at all, I don't think he's going to be earth-shattering (especially when the WI quicks around him tend to be tearaway flamboyant bowlers, pushing him into that holding role whether he wants to be the third seamer or not).

And I really, really rate Holder's batting. With the bat, he vaguely reminds me of Mitchell Johnson circa-2009 (strong fast bowler who hits down the ground, natural power and timing, uncomplicated technique etc.), and Johnson's never gone anywhere near reaching his potential with the bat in hand. I never saw him bat at FC level, but he looks to be a far, far better bat than his FC average suggests.

And Holder strikes me as the kind of guy who gets in the nets and works his arse off for the team, and will put in the effort to improve. And I think that's likely to pay the biggest dividends for him with the bat.

IMO he's like Darren Sammy. Only a Test-class version.
 
D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
In hindsight, 'pretty static' is overly harsh. He's not a 35 averaging bowler, for sure.

Hanging around that 29-32 zone would be my best guess, based on his bowling now and the requisite contextual factors. And I reckon he can average 32-25 with the bat too.
 
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