All-rounders with equal bowling/batting skill?

[kiwiviktor81]

Yeah, not outs don't boost the average because had the batsman stayed in he could have scored more runs.

 

[marc71178]

Stats analysis: Imran Khan | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Yeah, nah.

Yes, thanks for posting something that shows that when he scored runs and batted more he didn't bowl yet when he took lots of wickets his batting workload was significantly lower.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Yeah, not outs don't boost the average because had the batsman stayed in he could have scored more runs.

No. Not Outs don't boost batting averages because it's impossible to boost them. A batting average is the number of runs divided by number of dismissals. There are no "could have", "might have" or other hypotheticals involved.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

No. Not Outs don't boost batting averages because it's impossible to boost them. A batting average is the number of runs divided by number of dismissals. There are no "could have", "might have" or other hypotheticals involved.

Perhaps runs per innings or runs per match, or the value of partnerships involved in are better measures of someone's actual and not potential team value with the bat. Unless you disagree that if he was to move up the batting order he is statistically likely to score fewer not outs.

The not out when ten wickets have fallen is worthless to the team as eleven wickets are not needed. It is after all a team game and after ten wickets - the innings is closed.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Yes, thanks for posting something that shows that when he scored runs and batted more he didn't bowl yet when he took lots of wickets his batting workload was significantly lower.

TOP ALLROUNDERS BETWEEN 1980 AND 1988 (QUAL: 1500 RUNS, 100 WICKETS)
Player Tests Runs Average 100s/ 50s Wickets Average 5WI/ 10WM Diff In Ave
Imran Khan 48 2028 39.76 4/ 10 236 17.77 18/ 5 21.99
Richard Hadlee51 1987 31.04 2/ 10 284 19.03 28/ 7 12.01
Ian Botham 72 3989 34.38 10/ 19 255 31.83 15/ 2 2.55
Kapil Dev 72 3103 31.98 5/ 16 242 30.05 14/ 2 1.93\

Take from it what you will. I see someone averaging 39.76 with the bat and 17.77 with the ball with a century and a ten wicket match bag in the same test match.

 

[marc71178]

Yes, those averages tell you so much about how much of a workload he had don't they?

Actually they don't because he didn't perform over a series as an all-rounder ever, when he had a lot of batting to do, he didn't take many wickets and vice versa.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Yes, those averages tell you so much about how much of a workload he had don't they?

Actually they don't because he didn't perform over a series as an all-rounder ever, when he had a lot of batting to do, he didn't take many wickets and vice versa.

Myth. Wrong. Boring.

82 v England.

82/83 v India.

 

[marc71178]

82 was probably the closest he came to it but even then he only scored a couple of fifties. That's not what you would call a massive batting workload.

As for the other series, he batted 5 times in 6 games. How the **** is that a big batting workload?

 

[andruid]

Jaques Kallis' stats challenge the logic of this thread.

 

[mr_mister]

not really he's a batting all-rounder

Best batting average of the modern age, ATG

Great bowler. Not an legend though

 

[Noah1]

Botham is the one that immediately springs to mind, despite his stats suggesting that he was possibly a bowling all-rounder, throughout his test career he won many matches with bat and ball.

Today I think that Al Hasan is probably the only world-class "genuine all-rounder".