Chances of a 12 team tournament in 2019?

[Furball]

That's all good, but why should it stop them from representing their country? Barcelona develops a lot of players for their club. Messi wouldn't have had a career if it wasn't for Barcelona coming forward when he was a kid to get his growth disorder treated properly. Doesn't mean that he is forced to play for Spain some how.

National rights is a personal choice of a player. England can choose to not develop that player if they want to be stingy. However, claiming their talent as their own just because they allowed talent to develop in their backyard is a stinky argument. A player should be able to play for their country.

You're arguing against a point I haven't made ffs.

Your Messi example is crap as he's a Spanish citizen and could have represented Spain if he chose to do so.

 

[Pratters]

No, it isn't. I understand why Rankin would like to play for England when he can - gets more opportunities to plays tests and ODIs. However, he should be allowed to play for his home country when such opportunities arise. Otherwise, how will you grow Irish cricket, if you keep taking away the best players.. and it is taking them away, regardless of who developed them.

 

[theegyptian]

Rankin was close to been released by Warwickshire before he quit Ireland. He kept on missing Warwickshire games to play for Ireland and would often come back unfit + (and this may be wrong but I don't think Warwickshire got compensated when he was absent with Ireland - unlike when a player plays for England). Not a great position for either Rankin or Warwickshire to be in.

Also the county championship isn't self sufficient . The ECB partly funds the counties because they don't break even on their own. That means that English cricket is in effect helping fund Irish cricket in that respect (although they clearly take back in other areas)

The ecb are probably reasonably happy with the way things are now. 10 or 15 county players are Irish. Take the best when they come good. If Ireland were to become a test nation and developed and had 40 or 50 players in county cricket then the ECB would have a real problem. They'd be funding Irish cricket and not reaping the benefits of the Irish players becoming 'English'.

Of course it could have some positives if Ireland were to become a decent team. England Ireland at cricket could be an extremely profitable rivalry (for the boards) if Ireland were to become good. And possibly increase the competition and standard of county cricket.

ECB have to almost decide whether they want to work with the Irish (and maybe Scottish) board and help them become a big cricketing nation - and form some kind of solid agreement between the two boards. Or keep the current situation and keep Ireland at arms length.

It'll probably come down to whether the ECB feels in the long run Ireland can make it as a test nation. Or possibly they'll do as they've done recently and look at the short term and keep cramming the schedule full of India/Australia and only look to help Ireland if playing Ireland becomes profitable.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Apparently the World T20 tournament has been reduced to one every 4 years instead of one every 2 years. The next one removed means possible conflict with India's next lucrative assignment with England has no other competing tournaments in 2016.

On the other hand, the ECB will host India for five Tests, five ODIs and a T20 in 2018, in addition to five ODIs and a T20 with Australia. How fortunate for them that the World T20 is no longer in potential conflict with their most lucrative tour.

More really interesting points in this piece up at Cricnfo by @idlesummers.

The ICC is actually not making any efforts to get on board with the Olympic movement, when they do have a chance to, either.

Confirms my suspicion that the ECB are now the most influential voice at the ICC and responsible for the recent spate of ****ty decisions. Bogey man BCCI would have been all about the extra money that the World T20 would bring in.

 

[theegyptian]

Confirms my suspicion that the ECB are now the most influential voice at the ICC and responsible for the recent spate of ****ty decisions. Bogey man BCCI would have been all about the extra money that the World T20 would bring in.

Haven't read the article yet but I'd presume the ECB, BCCI and Aus boards have done the sums and worked out they make more playing between themeselves than spitting all the money from the T20 between more teams. And too many international T20 tournaments diminishes the importance and originality of the IPL.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Do the BCCI benefit much from touring another nation as they would from a Big Three share of WT20 revenue?

 

[theegyptian]

Do the BCCI benefit much from touring another nation as they would from a Big Three share of WT20 revenue?

I dunno but I don't see how the ECB would be that powerful. As far as I can tell the BCCI hold all the cards. All the money comes from India. I can't see what leverage the ECB would have to make India cancel a T20 tournament if they didn't want to.

They're all in it together carving up the profits for hookers and blow.

 

[G.I.Joe]

I dunno but I don't see how the ECB would be that powerful. As far as I can tell the BCCI hold all the cards. All the money comes from India. I can't see what leverage the ECB would have to make India cancel a T20 tournament if they didn't want to.

I dunno. It's like three mob bosses got together and marked out territories. The BCCI got the increased share of revenue they wanted, the ECB got to decide formats and schedules to safeguard their interests and the Aussies - well I'm damned if I know what they got out of it.

They're all in it together carving up the profits for hookers and blow.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

The English have soft power in the sport business. Perceived to be competent and less corrupt than the alternatives (heaven knows why).

 

[Spark]

Confirms my suspicion that the ECB are now the most influential voice at the ICC and responsible for the recent spate of ****ty decisions. Bogey man BCCI would have been all about the extra money that the World T20 would bring in.

This actually makes a lot of sense tbh, under the "Giles Clarke is a ****" theory.

 

[Pratters]

What is the % share of power, roughly, if you calculate in terms of share of money and decision making, if any one has any clue?

 

[G.I.Joe]

What is the % share of power, roughly, if you calculate in terms of share of money and decision making, if any one has any clue?

I ran the numbers on my spreadsheet and it roughly works out to 2 apples, 3 oranges and a pineapple respectively, Pratters.

 

[Pratters]

Fruity.

 

[Sarun]

So, no ICC tournament in 2018 after at least one every year since 2009?

 

[honestbharani]

If we think that Morgan and Rankin would've been given so much access to the training etc they got if they were playing for Ireland then I don't think we're being honest.

If you think they are the players they are only because of the training and facilities, I dont think you are being honest either.. And we have already seen that the English national team set up can choke talented players than actually harness them... And these guys could have made money off the IPL or even country cricket as overseas pros instead of having to become eligible for England... IT has always just been a question of money, sadly...

 

[Furball]

They wouldn't have been developee if they were overseas players.

 

[honestbharani]

I am not too sure.. You are perhaps implying that they wouldn't have been good enough to come through as international cricketers without the English facilities but IMO, they would have made it to international cricket as Irish players and would have then been taken up by some counties or IPL clubs, depending on how good they perceive them to be...

 

[Furball]

I am not too sure.. You are perhaps implying that they wouldn't have been good enough to come through as international cricketers without the English facilities but IMO, they would have made it to international cricket as Irish players and would have then been taken up by some counties or IPL clubs, depending on how good they perceive them to be...

Answer: not good enough for a contract.

There's a reason associate players don't get IPL contracts and why non-EU associates don't get county contracts.

Rankin and Morgan wouldn't have played enough internationals for Ireland for a county to sit up and go 'oh he's quite good, let's give him a contract.' So they would be stuck playing club cricket in Ireland, without access to the facilities and coaching that have helped them develop into the players they are.

 

[Pratters]

Moody to Atherton: Didn't you guys pinch off one of their quicks
Atherton: He is in the Lions team, so we haven't totally let him go. For people in Ireland, though, it must be galling to see some one like Rankin go.
Moody: The slight lower level of the Irish team you are talking about right now, Rankin could be the difference for that team, you know.

 

[Pratters]

If you think they are the players they are only because of the training and facilities, I dont think you are being honest either.. And we have already seen that the English national team set up can choke talented players than actually harness them... And these guys could have made money off the IPL or even country cricket as overseas pros instead of having to become eligible for England... IT has always just been a question of money, sadly...

This is a great point. Did Zimbabweans like Andy Flower need English domestic player title in county cricket to succeed? Zimbabwe was a really good team in the 90s and how many of them played as non overseas players in county cricket? They did all right. Training is important but talent is more crucial and once you are at the top, you can self coach a lot of times. Exposure helps, sure, but England didn't make Rankin or Joyce or any thing. They may have improved them a bit but too much a big deal is being made out of it.