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Dhoni retires from Test Cricket
- Thread starter vic_orthdox
- Start date
NasserFan207
International Vice-Captain
Yes, he had a calm authority on the pitch his players obviously respected. By great leader I'm mostly talking about charisma and how much people want to follow you.
Don't recall any player having any issues with Dhoni as captain.
Cabinet96
Hall of Fame Member
Thoughts on Smith, out of genuine curiosity?
Was never a fan, way too negative a captain.
Contra
Cricketer Of The Year
How was he awful? Just because he lost a bunch of away tours doesn't automatically make him awful.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
From 08-10 he was awful?
Athlai
Not Terrible
He really was. He was a decent leader but tactically he was still terrible. Even the overall team "mentality" he instilled was still pretty defensive, though not as bad as it became.
Edit: Just realised this is in comparison to other Indian captains. Was certainly better than Kumble at the time.
cnerd123
likes this
Dravid and Kumble were both very conservative and bland.
So when MSD arrived, he was viewed as funky. Strange. He believed in making sure that losing was not an option before contemplating the win. Bat long, declare late, and bowl defensively. Always make the other side chase the game.
It worked somehow. We won a lot at home and did not lose much away. This was in no small part due to the legendary batting lineup + Zak + moments of brilliance from Ashwin/Ojha, Sreesanth, RP and Yuvraj. It is hard to say exactly how much influence MSD's ideology had to do with this success. Would India have been even better with a more aggressive captain? Or would they have lost a lot more? Was MSD holding India back, or was he dead on the money by playing it safe instead of chasing victories?
Whatever your views, its hard to argue with a captain who reached number 1 in the Test rankings.
But then Zak fell apart. The runs dried up. Without scoreboard pressure and a strike bowler, India always looked to be letting the game drift in the field. It felt like they gave up as soon as a partnership formed. Dhoni was still being Dhoni - waiting for wickets to come, trying to desperately build pressure - but he didn't have the bowlers nor the runs to do so. He looked lost. The only times India looked like taking a wicket under his leadership were when the spinners were operating at home, or when one of the quicks were in the midst of those rare magical spells that make them looked world class.
So then MSD tried to get funky. The bowlers were just too inconsistent to do the basics right, so he decided to make them bowl short. A lot. He tried legside strangles. He tried part-timers with men in the deep (AKA declaration bowling). He tried 4 bowlers, he tried 4 bowlers and a Binny, he tried 5 bowlers. Nothing worked. The spinners couldn't adapt overseas, and the pace bowlers could barely string together more than an hour of good bowling. MSD got more and more stubborn in his ways. More short balls. Throwing men out into the deep earlier and earlier. Not taking the new ball. Letting the game drift after the first hour. You felt he had given up, yet he would consistently insist that India were trying to attack. Trying to take wickets. That with some more luck they would be bowling out sides for 150. But they kept losing.
Things got better with the new gen of batsmen. 2014 especially. India were getting into winning positions now. The pacers looked promising. Ishant was getting more accurate. Ishant won them a Test at Lords; the law of averages suggests the short ball theory had to work eventually. But aside from that fluke, India were still losing. MSD was struggling for runs so got funky with his batting. He was missing catches too. He stood back to Jadeja. And he kept insisting on the short ball. Ashwin missed more Tests than he should have, in favour of Jadeja's control. Dhoni was being the same old Dhoni. And India were still losing.
At his best, MSD was a strange, yet somewhat mediocre Test captain. At his worst, he was just awful. He couldn't coax the best out of his mediocre bowlers, and while you would like to sympathise with him, you also wonder of someone else could have done a better job.
So when MSD arrived, he was viewed as funky. Strange. He believed in making sure that losing was not an option before contemplating the win. Bat long, declare late, and bowl defensively. Always make the other side chase the game.
It worked somehow. We won a lot at home and did not lose much away. This was in no small part due to the legendary batting lineup + Zak + moments of brilliance from Ashwin/Ojha, Sreesanth, RP and Yuvraj. It is hard to say exactly how much influence MSD's ideology had to do with this success. Would India have been even better with a more aggressive captain? Or would they have lost a lot more? Was MSD holding India back, or was he dead on the money by playing it safe instead of chasing victories?
Whatever your views, its hard to argue with a captain who reached number 1 in the Test rankings.
But then Zak fell apart. The runs dried up. Without scoreboard pressure and a strike bowler, India always looked to be letting the game drift in the field. It felt like they gave up as soon as a partnership formed. Dhoni was still being Dhoni - waiting for wickets to come, trying to desperately build pressure - but he didn't have the bowlers nor the runs to do so. He looked lost. The only times India looked like taking a wicket under his leadership were when the spinners were operating at home, or when one of the quicks were in the midst of those rare magical spells that make them looked world class.
So then MSD tried to get funky. The bowlers were just too inconsistent to do the basics right, so he decided to make them bowl short. A lot. He tried legside strangles. He tried part-timers with men in the deep (AKA declaration bowling). He tried 4 bowlers, he tried 4 bowlers and a Binny, he tried 5 bowlers. Nothing worked. The spinners couldn't adapt overseas, and the pace bowlers could barely string together more than an hour of good bowling. MSD got more and more stubborn in his ways. More short balls. Throwing men out into the deep earlier and earlier. Not taking the new ball. Letting the game drift after the first hour. You felt he had given up, yet he would consistently insist that India were trying to attack. Trying to take wickets. That with some more luck they would be bowling out sides for 150. But they kept losing.
Things got better with the new gen of batsmen. 2014 especially. India were getting into winning positions now. The pacers looked promising. Ishant was getting more accurate. Ishant won them a Test at Lords; the law of averages suggests the short ball theory had to work eventually. But aside from that fluke, India were still losing. MSD was struggling for runs so got funky with his batting. He was missing catches too. He stood back to Jadeja. And he kept insisting on the short ball. Ashwin missed more Tests than he should have, in favour of Jadeja's control. Dhoni was being the same old Dhoni. And India were still losing.
At his best, MSD was a strange, yet somewhat mediocre Test captain. At his worst, he was just awful. He couldn't coax the best out of his mediocre bowlers, and while you would like to sympathise with him, you also wonder of someone else could have done a better job.
Last edited:
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
Dhoni has always been pretty solid against bounce. His problems were swing and not knowing his off stump.
OverratedSanity
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Dravid wasn't bland imo. He's a mellow sort of guy, but tactically, he's India's best ever captain.
OverratedSanity
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Meh... never saw much in Dhoni's captaincy which was a breath of fresh air tbh. If anything it was Ganguly's reign which brought about a true attitude change in our cricket.
And Dravid, while no master tactician, was generally more positive than Ganguly and Dhoni as a captain.
And Dravid, while no master tactician, was generally more positive than Ganguly and Dhoni as a captain.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
So funny, Dhoni was praised by all and sundry on this forum in 2008 and 2009 for his captaincy. Distinctly remember Uppercut noting how much better India were when Dhoni was captain compared to Kumble during the 2008 series vs. Australia.
The idea that he was an overly defensive captain in 2008-09 is wrong.
ImpatientLime
International Regular
if we're gonna play that game then i thinks it fair to say he hardly had the bowlers post zaheer to pull india out of mediocrity.