Dhoni retires from Test Cricket

[Furball]

So funny, Dhoni was praised by all and sundry on this forum in 2008 and 2009 for his captaincy. Distinctly remember Uppercut noting how much better India were when Dhoni was captain compared to Kumble during the 2008 series vs. Australia.

The idea that he was an overly defensive captain in 2008-09 is wrong.

Haha indeed.

People are judging Dhoni's captaincy from 2011-14 far too harshly. It's worth noting that India's rise to number 1 coincided with an extremely kind fixture list where they played a lot of cricket at home. They've played more series away from home since then, and frankly at the moment they don't have the players to succeed in the toughest away tours.

And while there's plenty of valid criticisms of Dhoni's captaincy I can't think of a Test defeat where you could pin it on that. The one defeat that I can think of straight away where it would be fair enough to pin on him was because of irresponsible batting (Trent Bridge 2011).

 

[duffer]

Dhoni 08-10 was one of the best captains India has ever had in test cricket. Dhoni 11-14 less so.

Yes, his legacy would be so different if he gave it up after the Cup. It's been tarnished a fair bit after the past few debacles, more or less to a point where people won't give him credit for his earlier brilliance.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Haha indeed.

People are judging Dhoni's captaincy from 2011-14 far too harshly. It's worth noting that India's rise to number 1 coincided with an extremely kind fixture list where they played a lot of cricket at home. They've played more series away from home since then, and frankly at the moment they don't have the players to succeed in the toughest away tours.

And while there's plenty of valid criticisms of Dhoni's captaincy I can't think of a Test defeat where you could pin it on that. The one defeat that I can think of straight away where it would be fair enough to pin on him was because of irresponsible batting (Trent Bridge 2011).

Not a defeat but Capetown 2011 felt like one anyway. And it was imo, almost exclusively down to Dhoni's captaincy. All we needed was a few overs of solid attacking bowling and I have no doubt we'd have won. Kallis played a blinder, but boy was he helped out by MS.

 

[Kirkut]

Good on Dhoni quitting tests. Man has already grown white stubble and needs to loosen up a bit. Frankly he never enjoyed test match format as said by one of his Ranji team mates.

Kohli being inexperienced is bound to make tactical blunders but will lead with an example as he did in 2nd innings of Adelaide test.

 

[YorksLanka]

shame that Dhoni has retired from tests but at least he can focus on ODI cricket now..He is a fantastic player who India are blessed to have led them..

 

[Contra]

Meh... never saw much in Dhoni's captaincy which was a breath of fresh air tbh. If anything it was Ganguly's reign which brought about a true attitude change in our cricket.

And Dravid, while no master tactician, was generally more positive than Ganguly and Dhoni as a captain.

So positive that he batted England out of the game at the oval in 2007 with a 96 ball 12 instead of pushing on and trying to win the series 2-0.

It's just incredible how much double standards are applied to Dhoni with regards to not going for the win and securing series when basically everyone else does the same.

 

[weldone]

Ganguly was the most aggressive as a test captain among the three, and Dhoni was by far the most defensive. Kohli will undoubtedly be more aggressive than all 3 if Adelaide test is anything to go by. However, only time can tell how much success that aggression can bring in.

 

[OverratedSanity]

So positive that he batted England out of the game at the oval in 2007 with a 96 ball 12 instead of pushing on and trying to win the series 2-0.

It's just incredible how much double standards are applied to Dhoni with regards to not going for the win and securing series when basically everyone else does the same.

One instance tbh. Will be happy to change my opinion if you can point out more.

 

[Jono]

Yes, his legacy would be so different if he gave it up after the Cup.

True but **** legacy. He'd barely been playing test for long by the World Cup and had a lot of gas left in the tank.

I have no doubt keeping and being captain in all forms weighed him down heavily. Not to mention being our best ODI bat.

I'm not going to pretend like my criticisms of him for the last 3 years aren't real now that he's retired, but I think some of the attacking of him that's occurred (overall not just CW) since he announced it has been a bit in poor taste.

 

[Jono]

Not a defeat but Capetown 2011 felt like one anyway. And it was imo, almost exclusively down to Dhoni's captaincy. All we needed was a few overs of solid attacking bowling and I have no doubt we'd have won. Kallis played a blinder, but boy was he helped out by MS.

Yeah I don't agree with all of your MS criticisms but this one is right. Its the moment when his captaincy flipped a bit imo.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Ganguly was definitely more aggressive, but that does not imply a relative deficiency in Dhoni. Ganguly had the batting lineup at it's peak with Sehwag and Dravid in God-mode and a bowling attack with atleast two dependable bowlers in Kumble and Zaheer (and Srinath and Harbhajan complementing them for significant periods). To borrow a Pontingism - you could have a monkey lead that team and he'd type out the collected works of Shakespeare, or something like that.

 

[G.I.Joe]

"...the decision to give up captaincy was right though the decision not to play Test cricket is an incorrect one."

- Noted captaincy giver-upper Saurav Ganguly chimes in on Dhoni's retirement.

 

[Furball]

Ganguly was definitely more aggressive, but that does not imply a relative deficiency in Dhoni. Ganguly had the batting lineup at it's peak with Sehwag and Dravid in God-mode and a bowling attack with atleast two dependable bowlers in Kumble and Zaheer (and Srinath and Harbhajan complementing them for significant periods). To borrow a Pontingism - you could have a monkey lead that team and he'd type out the collected works of Shakespeare, or something like that.

Wasn't Sehwag's God Mode period under Dhoni?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Wasn't Sehwag's God Mode period under Dhoni?

Sehwag's two purple patches directly coincided with Gangly's peak as captain (2002-05) and Dhoni's (2008-2010).

Tbf, both Ganguly and Dhoni had immense in-form batting lineups. Sehwag, Laxman and especially Dravid had great runs in Ganguly's reign, while Sachin was in a huge slump. On the other hand in Dhoni's reign, Dravid declined, but Sehwag, Sachin, Gambhir and VVS touched incredible peaks.

By the way, I just realized I've come off as a huge Dhoni hater in these threads which isn't totally true. My admiration for his leadership of men, which is a far more vital component of captaincy than on-field tactics, is huge. You could clearly see everyone in the side followed him willingly and looked up to him, which is what a captain should be, first and foremost. Will be missed.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Wasn't Sehwag's God Mode period under Dhoni?

Dunno. What I do know is that Sehwag did not score a single century outside the subcontinent under Dhoni's captaincy..

 

[Daemon]

Sehwag's two purple patches directly coincided with Gangly's peak as captain (2002-05) and Dhoni's (2008-2010).

Tbf, both Ganguly and Dhoni had immense in-form batting lineups. Sehwag, Laxman and especially Dravid had great runs in Ganguly's reign, while Sachin was in a huge slump. On the other hand in Dhoni's reign, Dravid declined, but Sehwag, Sachin, Gambhir and VVS touched incredible peaks.

By the way, I just realized I've come off as a huge Dhoni hater in these threads which isn't totally true. My admiration for his leadership of men, which is a far more vital component of captaincy than on-field tactics, is huge. You could clearly see everyone in the side followed him willingly and looked up to him, which is what a captain should be, first and foremost. Will be missed.

Dravid had some pretty good series under Dhoni as well tbf. Didn't do that well in the really tough ones besides England 2011 but he still scored plenty of runs overall.

 

[Cruxdude]

Great decision at the right time by Dhoni. Not much of a surprise really tough given how often he has mentioned he wouldn't be playing for too long. A disappointing last 3 years of captaincy though. We wouldn't have done better if he was not the captain but the attitude of the team just sucked. It is going to be hard for Kohli too considering our bowling attack but hopefully we are done with the days of bowling for a declaration after 50 overs.

 

[Contra]

I don't get how people can be disappointed with the last few years of his captaincy, the worst period for Dhoni was indefinitely two consecutive series whitewashes in 2011-12, and it got worse when we lost 2-1 to England at home. But in all honesty Dhoni hasn't done much wrong since the start of 2013, owned Aus @ home 4-0 (its worth remembering that 4-0 has never been done before), and even in the overseas tours he tried his best with what he had, he tried different combinations and mixed up his field placings but beyond on a point he can't do much, his batsmen cost him games that should have been draws in England, and his bowlers weren't able to finish the job as usual in most cases. As an Indian fan I don't feel nearly as bad as I did during 8-0.

 

[marc71178]

I love how he seems to get the credit for wins but no criticism for losses...

 

[Jono]

I don't get how people can be disappointed with the last few years of his captaincy, the worst period for Dhoni was indefinitely two consecutive series whitewashes in 2011-12, and it got worse when we lost 2-1 to England at home. But in all honesty Dhoni hasn't done much wrong since the start of 2013, owned Aus @ home 4-0 (its worth remembering that 4-0 has never been done before), and even in the overseas tours he tried his best with what he had, he tried different combinations and mixed up his field placings but beyond on a point he can't do much, his batsmen cost him games that should have been draws in England, and his bowlers weren't able to finish the job as usual in most cases. As an Indian fan I don't feel nearly as bad as I did during 8-0.

You're right in that the height of Dhoni's worst period as captain was the 2-1 loss to England. I was calling for his head, and I think if there was any viable captain at that time and had that horrible 18 month period not occurred right after the World Cup triumph he'd have been sent packing.