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Are we really going to pretend that Tim Southee...

grecian

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Flem274* said:
It's Howsie.

And for once he's not being hopelessly biased. Southee isn't the definitive second best but he has a case, as do Ryan Harris, Mitchell Johnson and to a lesser extent James Anderson and Vernon Philander unless they can refind their mojos.
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BIB means nothing to me mate, I don't hang out in Kiwi threads. Anyway I've mainly been arguing with others hype, OS and Teja.

He may have a case, I'm just saying let's see a bit more of him. Not his fault you don't play a lot of Test cricket. Yet it's not unreasonable to just want to see him more in other conditions, before we call him the second best pace bowler in the World.

I like him as a bowler BTW.
 
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wellAlbidarned

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
He's bowled and succeeded in literally all of the worst pace bowling conditions. Does he need to do some backflips too?
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Flem274* said:
...he has. he's performed in england, aussie, india, sri lanka, west indies and at home. he hasn't played in south africa or the UAE yet. what else is he meant to be doing? or are we only allowed to rate him when he's 35 and has been around the world several times? funny how we don't need to do the same with other bowlers.
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Southee hasn't performed well in Australia - not consistently anyway. He was pretty rubbish during the 2011 series that we drew. But yeah, he's shown his qualities as a wicket taker everywhere save UAE and SAF (where he hasn't played) and AUS (where he hasn't played since his 2012 metamorphosis). The only time in recent years where he's struggled at all was during the 2013 England tour of New Zealand and a) those pitches were mind-bendingly flat even by modern NZ standards; and b) he was returning from injury and frankly looked short of match fitness (which admittedly isn't a valid excuse, but he does seem to have learned from the episode).

Southee, in my mind, is comfortably New Zealand's best regularly available bowler since Hadlee. But I wouldn't rate him number 2 and agree with grecian's point that he has a bit more to do away from home before he could be considered as such. This series will be an interesting test of where he's at, especially given its proximity to Mitch's own efforts.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
Bahnz said:
Southee hasn't performed well in Australia - not consistently anyway. He was pretty rubbish during the 2011 series that we drew. But yeah, he's shown his qualities as a wicket taker everywhere save UAE and SAF (where he hasn't played) and AUS (where he hasn't played since his 2012 metamorphosis). The only time in recent years where he's struggled at all was during the 2013 England tour of New Zealand and a) those pitches were mind-bendingly flat even by modern NZ standards; and b) he was returning from injury and frankly looked short of match fitness (which admittedly isn't a valid excuse, but he does seem to have learned from the episode).

Southee, in my mind, is comfortably New Zealand's best regularly available bowler since Hadlee. But I wouldn't rate him number 2 and agree with grecian's point that he has a bit more to do away from home before he could be considered as such. This series will be an interesting test of where he's at, especially given its proximity to Mitch's own efforts.
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din't look at the stats, just went off memorable performances. bowled well in his first test there and also at Hobart once his tail was up, and this was when he was a prank bowler as you say. i take it the stats aren't pretty?

australia should suit him so it will be interesting to see how he goes when he returns.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Flem274* said:
din't look at the stats, just went off memorable performances. bowled well in his first test there and also at Hobart once his tail was up, and this was when he was a prank bowler as you say. i take it the stats aren't pretty?

australia should suit him so it will be interesting to see how he goes when he returns.
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Yeah, if memory serves he averaged 40+ on both trips. He was brilliant on day 1 of the Brisbane test in 2008, but as tended to be the case back in those days, it was a false dawn and he got pumped for the rest of the series. In 2011 he was awful at Brisbane, but bowled OK in patches at Hobart. I'll never forget the lbw of Ponting that was so plumb that Ponting didn't bother to wait for the ump's decision.
 
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
I thought he was really good all through the Hobart test. More than a few catches when down off him IIRC.
 
WindieWeathers

WindieWeathers

International Regular
Maybe i'm seeing things...but doesn't Roach have a better average and also outperformed Southee when both of them were on the same tracks earlier this year? :blink:
 
D

DriveClub

International Regular
Yes what I have been waiting for, it's been too boring everyone patting each others backs, lets get this started
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
for roach to be the second best test bowler in the world he actually has to be playing test cricket and since the west indies went on strike and will likely go bankrupt...
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
WindieWeathers said:
Maybe i'm seeing things...but doesn't Roach have a better average and also outperformed Southee when both of them were on the same tracks earlier this year? :blink:
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Stand back people, I'm going in.

How did he outperform Southee? Yeah Roach ended up with more wickets, but that's just a consequence of bowling about 30 more overs than Southee did. Southee finished the series with a better average despite playing in Roach's back yard. What's more, unlike Roach, Southee's bowling actually made a critical contribution to the outcome of the series.
 
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