Are we really going to pretend that Tim Southee...

[Athlai]

Roach isn't even as good as Anderson.

 

[FBU]

Anderson has only played two away series since the period Teja mentioned if I'm not mistaken.

And the remaining nine years comment is dramatic licence. He became a regular in 2008.

Well he does get good batsmen out.
Test batsmen who average 50+ who were still playing after 2000 and the bowlers who got their wickets the most times

58.76 - Sangakkara - Anderson (7)
55.37 - Kallis - Warne/Anderson (7)
53.78 - Tendulkar - Anderson (9)
53.49 - Y Khan - Herath (8)
53.10 - Chanderpaul - Kumble (7)
52.88 - Lara - McGrath (15)
52.65 - Mathews - Ajmal (5)
52.58 - Du Plessis - Johnson/Ajmal (3)
52.31 - Dravid - Warne (8)
52.29 - Yousuf - Murali (9)
51.85 - Ponting - Harbhajan (10)
51.54 - Flower - Younis (6)
51.52 - Hussey - Morkel (8)
50.59 - Clarke - Anderson/Broad/Steyn (9)
51.32 - Amla - Johnson (7)
51.06 - SWaugh - Ambrose (11)
51.02 - De Villiers - Broad (7)
50.94 - Root - Harris (5)
50.73 - Hayden - Harbhajan/Ntini (9)

 

[Athlai]

Meaningless statistic without knowing how many times they had the opportunity to do so. It's more a list of "good batsman and bowlers who have played each other a lot"

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, should at least divide the number of dismissals by the number of innings in which the batsman and bowler have faced each other. Should also be weighted by the batsman's average score in the relevant matches.

 

[dermo]

when tim southee wins a test match in south africa with half a shoe and no knees he can potentially lay claim to being in the same conversation as ryan harris

 

[GIMH]

I think the link Grecian posted proves what drivel it is to use Anderson's away record over 'two years' against him

You've basically got

Oz away - disaster, but generally bowled okay first innings before bowling to zero pressure second up. In every match. Not making excuses but in context, he averaged 34 first dig which isn't great but not scandalously bad.

NZ away - averaged a disappointing 37 or so, still a good twenty lower than Southee in the same conditions

India away - outstanding. Averaged 30 on spinning decks. Only non spinner to take more than a handful of wickets that series

Meanwhile at home in the same period he averages just under 23, and this in a period where he wasn't felt to be bowling too well for large chunks of it. Not really sure why the home record has been ignored to the extent it has so far.

I mean Southee could be better than him, I haven't watched enough to comment. But the idiotic dismissals of Anderson in this thread are, well, just that.

 

[cnerd123]

I distinctly remember Anderson going through a phase between a match winning five-fer in the 2013 ashes in England, and a recent five-fer against India in England, during which he averaged 40 something with the ball? And people were requesting he be rested? Will need to get on statsguru to check that out.

But yea, I too get the impression that Anderson can go missing every now and then.

 

[dermo]

when tim southee wins a test match in south africa with half a shoe and no knees he can potentially lay claim to being in the same conversation as ryan harris

i may be wrong about the shoes part, i can't remember if it was the ashes or south africa where they cut the back of one of his shoes so he could keep bowling, what a man he is regardless

 

[WindieWeathers]

Stand back people, I'm going in.

How did he outperform Southee? Yeah Roach ended up with more wickets, but that's just a consequence of bowling about 30 more overs than Southee did. Southee finished the series with a better average despite playing in Roach's back yard. What's more, unlike Roach, Southee's bowling actually made a critical contribution to the outcome of the series.

So getting more wickets means nothing now? i think it was obvious that Roach was the best pacer on show in that series. Furthermore if you want to talk about "averages" Kemar's average compared to Tim's speaks volumes despite both making their debuts around the same time.

 

[WindieWeathers]

for roach to be the second best test bowler in the world he actually has to be playing test cricket and since the west indies went on strike and will likely go bankrupt...

I didn't say Kemar is second best...i was just laying down the facts that suggest Southee isn't better than Kemar so how could he possibly be "second best"?

Oh and as for the last comment...keep wishing.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

maybe if roach managed to string more than two test matches together we could know for sure,

 

[hendrix]

So getting more wickets means nothing now?

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Southee: 70 wickets last 2 years
Roach: 29 wickets last 2 years

Furthermore if you want to talk about "averages" Kemar's average compared to Tim's speaks volumes despite both making their debuts around the same time.

So do you want to talk about averages or wickets?

You can't have it both ways depending on what argument you're making.

 

[cnerd123]

I was just going to make a 'Where's WW?' Thread, but then he just pops up here by himself.

 

[harsh.ag]

Don't think there have been idiotic dismissals of Jimmy here. Everyone thinks he is a really good bowler. The idiotic claims have all come from the English camp over the last 2 years with Jimmy being proclaimed "the best in the world at what he does" several times, which kinda generates this faint backlash here.

Personally think Southee is just a tad better than Jimmy.

 

[OverratedSanity]

So getting more wickets means nothing now? i think it was obvious that Roach was the best pacer on show in that series. Furthermore if you want to talk about "averages" Kemar's average compared to Tim's speaks volumes despite both making their debuts around the same time.

Jesus, you keep making the same pint about Southee's average and it has to be told to you repeatedly that his overall average means nothing. His average is plummeting so quickly it's stupid. Last 2-3 years, it's a no contest. I'm a big Roach fan, but he's hardly ever on the pitch. In the meantime, Southee has led the NZ attack and produced truly great spells in places as diverse as England, India, Sri Lanka, West Indies. He's simply better.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Southee: 70 wickets last 2 years
Roach: 29 wickets last 2 years



So do you want to talk about averages or wickets?

You can't have it both ways depending on what argument you're making.

LOL yes compare the last two years and leave out THAT TIM PLAYED MORE THAN DOUBLE THE MATCHES!

It's funny that despite those stats tim still far behind in the overall average!!..i wonder why?

The overall stats speak for themselves!!..i don't even know how anyone can deny that.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I think the link Grecian posted proves what drivel it is to use Anderson's away record over 'two years' against him

You've basically got

Oz away - disaster, but generally bowled okay first innings before bowling to zero pressure second up. In every match. Not making excuses but in context, he averaged 34 first dig which isn't great but not scandalously bad.

NZ away - averaged a disappointing 37 or so, still a good twenty lower than Southee in the same conditions

India away - outstanding. Averaged 30 on spinning decks. Only non spinner to take more than a handful of wickets that series

Meanwhile at home in the same period he averages just under 23, and this in a period where he wasn't felt to be bowling too well for large chunks of it. Not really sure why the home record has been ignored to the extent it has so far.

I mean Southee could be better than him, I haven't watched enough to comment. But the idiotic dismissals of Anderson in this thread are, well, just that.

Don't think anyone is saying Anderson's a rubbish bowler or anything, but personally think there's no doubt whatsoever that he's not been consistent enough in the last 2-3 years. Even in the series against us, his figures look great, but he bowled tripe at Lord's and that allowed us to get 300 on a pitch where we had no right to get over 170-200. Southee's had one great series after another, literally all over the world.

Basically, Southee is bowling right now how Anderson was in his 2010-2011 period.

 

[OverratedSanity]

LOL yes compare the last two years and leave out THAT TIM PLAYED MORE THAN DOUBLE THE MATCHES!

It's funny that despite those stats tim still far behind in the overall average!!..i wonder why?

The overall stats speak for themselves!!..i don't even know how anyone can deny that.

Overall stats have nothing to do with who's the better bowler right now. And the reason Roach has played half the matches is because he wasn't fit. That's no excuse.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Jesus, you keep making the same pint about Southee's average and it has to be told to you repeatedly that his overall average means nothing. His average is plummeting so quickly it's stupid. Last 2-3 years, it's a no contest. I'm a big Roach fan, but he's hardly ever on the pitch. In the meantime, Southee has led the NZ attack and produced truly great spells in places as diverse as England, India, Sri Lanka, West Indies. He's simply better.

1. how many tests in the last two years has tim played compared to roach?

2. if the overall stats mean nothing why bother having them then?

3. they played on the same tracks in the caribbean recently and like i said Kemar was the best pacer of the lot

You're free to your opinions..i just happen to believe they are way off the mark.

 

[Bahnz]

LOL yes compare the last two years and leave out THAT TIM PLAYED MORE THAN DOUBLE THE MATCHES!

It's funny that despite those stats tim still far behind in the overall average!!..i wonder why?

The overall stats speak for themselves!!..i don't even know how anyone can deny that.

Probably because more than half of Roach's matches have been played against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.