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New Zealand Off Season 2014

Flem274*

123/5
I guess we'll know when he turns 30 odd and it starts to catch up with him.
Franklin was a handy bowler in all formats including test right up until he told himself he didn't need to bowl anymore. After his initial run of success in the County Championship, he got a bit bigheaded and saw himself solely as a batsman and part time option. It was more the lack of overs he choose to bowl for Wellington that meant his average inflated in my view, because ultimately he's perfect for taking out first class cricketers - a left armer who swings the ball back in and is relatively accurate?

Ryder - different story, not asking him to tear teams apart but as he'd already shown in test cricket before, he's an effective partnership breaker and a good option as a fourth seamer. Not to mention that in form, he's still our best batsman in my view.
Yeah he was nearing world class with the ball in tests until his knee went bust after the world cup. After that he either couldn't or couldn't be bothered getting back to being a proper bowler.
 

Flem274*

123/5
I don't think Jesse is a bad bowler per se, and he's good enough to be the 5th bowler but I think both Anderson and Neesham are better.

Ryder should have a record like Taylor's with a reasonable 5th bowler rep to boot but he doesn't and he won't because he's going to waste away like so many New Zealand cricketers before him but in spectacular fashion. I just don't entertain any hopes of him having a good test career anymore because it's a cruel thing to do to yourself.
 

RxGM

U19 Vice-Captain
Yeah the life of a domestic cricketer is fine for a young bloke who just goes back to uni or does odd jobs for the winter. But once you're in that zone where you may not get an international career, or won't get another extended crack at it having already been there, it must be bloody tough to keep going.
I know the discussion has moved on a bit since this but I want to through in my 2 cents worth.
45-65k is not a great income but its not horrible when you compare it to other sports around NZ. And is a vast improvement in were things were 20 years ago and is. And quite frankly you get to do something you love, most people get stuck in jobs the don’t like. I will use Mark Turner as an example as I know him professionally and he was bought up in conversation earlier as someone who could have made it. So Mark’s 27 (same age as Brodie) works a 12 hour day – 60 to 70 hour week building bridges on the Waterview connection, he probably takes home 70k a year tops not significantly more than he would earn if he was on a decent domestic contract and significantly less and quite frankly cricketers don’t work nearly as hard. Yes he is in a career that his salary would progress at a decent rate but guys when they leave the game get thrown jobs by sponsers and people in the cricket fraternity. For all the **** that skippy made about going on the dole post career I heard that Marlbrough CA had offered him a full time job but he just didn’t want to relocate.

By international standards it is not a lot of money but by what these guys would be earning if they worked professionally it is about fair. And they are a lot better off than other sportsman like Hockey, Waterpolo, Basketball and pretty much every female sporting code.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
I don't disagree with any of that, it's just that if we want the standard of first class cricket to be high enough that our test cricketers aren't thrown under a bus upon debut, the salaries need to be competitive enough that they can afford to be genuine professionals.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Good news for Craig Cachopa that he impressed enough to get a contract. But a shame for NZ if it shuts down any NZ aspirations so early.

I don't mind if he plays both sides for a while. Like Adams and Marshall if he returns for a few NZ domestic deasons as an overseas player. Keep him in the loop so that if he does turn out really good there is a chance NZC could counter in a few years time with a central contract and a shot at a test career. I have similar hopes with James Fuller and am always happy to see him back as an overseas player.

Of course, better result would be now that ECB stealing more than their fair share of central ICC money that they relax their overseas player limits on county cricket. Rather than accentuate the vicious cycle, try to partially offset it.

Morally, no issue from my POV. We gain some Wagner, Elliott, CdG, Brownlie.
But we lose some Cachopa, Fuller, Marshall, Adams.

But, just think there is some 'law of unintended consequences' about ECB county cricket foreigner rules that have become a bit more galling and even more self perpetuating with the great ICC theft.
 

BackFootPunch

International 12th Man
I know the discussion has moved on a bit since this but I want to through in my 2 cents worth.
45-65k is not a great income but its not horrible when you compare it to other sports around NZ. And is a vast improvement in were things were 20 years ago and is. And quite frankly you get to do something you love, most people get stuck in jobs the don’t like. I will use Mark Turner as an example as I know him professionally and he was bought up in conversation earlier as someone who could have made it. So Mark’s 27 (same age as Brodie) works a 12 hour day – 60 to 70 hour week building bridges on the Waterview connection, he probably takes home 70k a year tops not significantly more than he would earn if he was on a decent domestic contract and significantly less and quite frankly cricketers don’t work nearly as hard. Yes he is in a career that his salary would progress at a decent rate but guys when they leave the game get thrown jobs by sponsers and people in the cricket fraternity. For all the **** that skippy made about going on the dole post career I heard that Marlbrough CA had offered him a full time job but he just didn’t want to relocate.

By international standards it is not a lot of money but by what these guys would be earning if they worked professionally it is about fair. And they are a lot better off than other sportsman like Hockey, Waterpolo, Basketball and pretty much every female sporting code.
Yeah, look, I agree that the sort of money a domestic cricketer makes isn't really all that bad - especially considering it's only for 6 months work. It's a thoroughly decent salary while you're getting it.

The tough thing is that you can't just be a cricketer between October and April and expect to turn up and perform in the next season. If you're a domestic cricketer you need to be training during the winter, doing fitness, hitting balls etc. In many cases you're effectively doing that on a volunteer basis, in and around any other commitments you might have. Sure, being a cricketer is living the dream but it's still tough - especially once you get to 25+ and see guys your own age set up in a career and with total job security. If you're not likely to play for NZ your potential earnings are pretty limited so giving the game up for something more secure must start looking pretty good.

It's all about trying to achieve balance. Personally I don't think what a domestic cricketer in NZ earns is fair for the level of commitment they're expected to give (both in and out of the actual season), but things won't change unless the revenue of NZC increases markedly. The one big improvement that could be made is making the contracts year-round. Make that 40k stretch over the whole year and expect that players do coaching or something over the winter, as well as their training. If we want a higher standard of FC cricket we need to treat our players like professionals for 12 months a year, not just for the 6 months when they're actually playing.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Isn't it why a lot of domestic cricketers, especially the young ones, head over to England in our winter to play grade cricket (and perhaps then domestic if they're lucky) if anything but to simply keep up training & playing effectively the year round?
 

BackFootPunch

International 12th Man
Isn't it why a lot of domestic cricketers, especially the young ones, head over to England in our winter to play grade cricket (and perhaps then domestic if they're lucky) if anything but to simply keep up training & playing effectively the year round?
Indeed. Get a decent deal and you can come back with a bit of extra cash, as well as a whole lot of match fitness that you couldn't otherwise get.
 

RxGM

U19 Vice-Captain
Yeah, look, I agree that the sort of money a domestic cricketer makes isn't really all that bad - especially considering it's only for 6 months work. It's a thoroughly decent salary while you're getting it.

The tough thing is that you can't just be a cricketer between October and April and expect to turn up and perform in the next season. If you're a domestic cricketer you need to be training during the winter, doing fitness, hitting balls etc. In many cases you're effectively doing that on a volunteer basis, in and around any other commitments you might have. Sure, being a cricketer is living the dream but it's still tough - especially once you get to 25+ and see guys your own age set up in a career and with total job security. If you're not likely to play for NZ your potential earnings are pretty limited so giving the game up for something more secure must start looking pretty good.

It's all about trying to achieve balance. Personally I don't think what a domestic cricketer in NZ earns is fair for the level of commitment they're expected to give (both in and out of the actual season), but things won't change unless the revenue of NZC increases markedly. The one big improvement that could be made is making the contracts year-round. Make that 40k stretch over the whole year and expect that players do coaching or something over the winter, as well as their training. If we want a higher standard of FC cricket we need to treat our players like professionals for 12 months a year, not just for the 6 months when they're actually playing.
So than the real issue than becomes facilities, which is the perennial complaint for guys in NZ, if there was actually a place for them to adequately practice at each of the 6 franchises all year than you could pay them all year or pay them a reduced salary for the offseason I have no issue with that.

Though the level of commitment really isn’t that high in cricket, Im not involved in FC cricket so I don’t know for sure but I estimate that during the playing season you play 4 days a week tops for FC games, so a 10 hour day, than you might train/travel 4-5 hours on the other 3 days blocky may wish to correct me as he seams to be involved with current players– I base this from what I have observed from living next to EPOO no one is ever out practicing before 9am or after 5 even in the middle of summer when daylight permits. That is still only a 45 hour week, most non professional high level athletes do 30+ hours every week of the year while also working a 30-40 hour week .
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Indeed. Get a decent deal and you can come back with a bit of extra cash, as well as a whole lot of match fitness that you couldn't otherwise get.
This is definitely an option over a shorter period of time, but you can't consistently continue to top up up your income, play 11 or so months of the year and get the best out of yourself over a long period of time - unless you're Sir Richard Hadlee. It's a tough one. A few guys have done it, and on the surface made more money than off-seasoning at home. But could they have benefitted from being fresh for their home summer, having a proper off-season with technical focus and potentially playing a higher level than they've achieved? It's a tough one - being a domestic player actually is a tough one despite the great fun it may seem.

Stretching the contracts over 12 months wouldn't work either, unless sufficient income was generated to fund a nigh-on doubling of players' domestic salaries.
 

Blocky

Banned
I know that USED to be the case. Tim turned 23/24 and got it. Jesse hasn't come near to getting it.
Southee still loves a drink and still gets himself up to no good, he just tends to cover his tracks a lot better and not be so blatant about it. The issue here is that Jesse doesn't have the whole "Oh ****, I actually screwed up, I need to keep this under wraps" mentality because he still associates Cricket to what it's been ever since he's been 16 - a good excuse to get trashed Friday and Saturday night with other cricketers, talk a bunch of **** and be a bunch of ****heads in town.

It's a major issue at all levels of cricket, most young players aren't like Kane Williamson who had the maturity early on to not need to fit in that way, look at what happened to Josef Walker between the ages of 15 to 17 - went from training every day, eating right and wanting nothing more than to represent NZ into being a fat **** who can't lay off the weed because guys like Brook Hatwell got him into it when they both played for Hamilton. It's not to excuse Jesse, but more so, I maintain the only difference between him and others is the fact that he's got no tact when he does get caught.

Yeah, look, I agree that the sort of money a domestic cricketer makes isn't really all that bad - especially considering it's only for 6 months work. It's a thoroughly decent salary while you're getting it.

The tough thing is that you can't just be a cricketer between October and April and expect to turn up and perform in the next season. If you're a domestic cricketer you need to be training during the winter, doing fitness, hitting balls etc. In many cases you're effectively doing that on a volunteer basis, in and around any other commitments you might have. Sure, being a cricketer is living the dream but it's still tough - especially once you get to 25+ and see guys your own age set up in a career and with total job security. If you're not likely to play for NZ your potential earnings are pretty limited so giving the game up for something more secure must start looking pretty good.

It's all about trying to achieve balance. Personally I don't think what a domestic cricketer in NZ earns is fair for the level of commitment they're expected to give (both in and out of the actual season), but things won't change unless the revenue of NZC increases markedly. The one big improvement that could be made is making the contracts year-round. Make that 40k stretch over the whole year and expect that players do coaching or something over the winter, as well as their training. If we want a higher standard of FC cricket we need to treat our players like professionals for 12 months a year, not just for the 6 months when they're actually playing.
The money they make is horrible for one reason - most domestic cricketers have an earning life of what, 12-14 years? So unless they get into the Black Caps or an IPL side, they're never getting the type of income progression that other careers have which means they come out the other side and unless they've been educating themselves, they're screwed. And a lot of them aren't given that much help in that domain when you compare it to the programmes that NZ Rugby and the NRL have for their players.

I've got a lot of respect for guys like Mitch McCleneghan who went out and put a business start up together, to be honest, Cricketers are very well placed to work in the start up space and should look at this as an option as they've got the time it requires, profile and generally will operate quite well in the sales and marketing space. That's what I'd be doing if I was a 17 yr old and doing it all over again.

So than the real issue than becomes facilities, which is the perennial complaint for guys in NZ, if there was actually a place for them to adequately practice at each of the 6 franchises all year than you could pay them all year or pay them a reduced salary for the offseason I have no issue with that.

Though the level of commitment really isn’t that high in cricket, Im not involved in FC cricket so I don’t know for sure but I estimate that during the playing season you play 4 days a week tops for FC games, so a 10 hour day, than you might train/travel 4-5 hours on the other 3 days blocky may wish to correct me as he seams to be involved with current players– I base this from what I have observed from living next to EPOO no one is ever out practicing before 9am or after 5 even in the middle of summer when daylight permits. That is still only a 45 hour week, most non professional high level athletes do 30+ hours every week of the year while also working a 30-40 hour week .
Most cricketers will train a max of three hours a day - probably an hour worth of physical fitness, alternating cardio and strength, with two hours of skills work. Then they'll do maybe an hour or two of mental work around game planning. A few train more, Kane Williamson has been known to bat as long as four hour stints in the nets before going onto his fielding training. The wider issue is that during the season, if you're playing a four day match, you're expected to be available for travel/training two days before the match and be available for a post session a day afterwards - so there is a seven day period that you've got to do 10 or so times a year, it's not an attractive option for most employers but again this comes down to guys wanting to go and make something of themselves during their cricketing career and build something like a McCleneghan has, .

The easy answer though is finding sponsors for each region who can take on five to ten employees who have variable working schedules, it shouldn't be a hard thing in this day and age to organise but the major issue comes down to Administrators in Cricket being absolutely incompetent at almost every level from David White down. Every single region has their version of an Administrator who sits on his ass, hardly gets the roster/match schedules built, doesn't use any new age technology to get things like club statistics and websites operational and collects a cheque for effectively nothing and that's the issue. These guys aren't out seeking options to make domestic cricket more viable for cricketers.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Must be hard in team sports not to get sucked into mediocrity by the people around you who don't really care. I've always been best at individual sports where I'm in charge of myself so I don't really know how it must be for guys like Southee and Ryder. Every country in the world must lose so many good players to the coasting through life attitude handed down to them by others.

edit: makes me wonder if the coaches who keep guys looking to what's important - even if they're not great coaches of the game itself - must be worth their weight in gold. Someone who can go to a bloke who is sliding a bit and not only pointing him in the right direction but motivating him to do so.
 
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RxGM

U19 Vice-Captain
In todays herald (its not online to link to) an article by Leggat said Auckland cricket is going to split coaching between Horne (FC) and Mark O’Donnell (T20 & ODI) and that Adams is coming back as a bowling coach.
There was no mention of Craig Cachopa leaving I guess this will all be answered next week when the first round of FC contracts are put out.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Andrew Alderson's exclusively a Herald on Sunday guy I think. Guarded the scoop, greedily.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
there's about 300 photos of myself with alcohol involved on facebook. Let's just not jump to conclusions, shall we?
 

jcas0167

International Debutant
I guess im so disappointed that I refuse to believe it till I see it on print officially
Yes, it's gutting to see such a promising player possibly slip away. Seems pretty solid mentally too, no doubt would have pressed for higher honours.

Interestingly England tightened up their eligibility critieria a couple of years ago, which would have meant Pietersen would have missed 2005 Ashes and Trott the 2009 Ashes.

The amendment, which also means that players coming here before their 18th birthday must wait only four years comes at a particularly felicitous time. At present there are no imported players waiting desperately for their international chance with England.
Pietersen would have missed 2005 Ashes under new ECB rules - Cricket - Sport - The Independent
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Article - Auckland Cricket

Rob Nicol, Tarun Nethula, and Brad and Carl Cachopa are all pencilled in to don Aces colours once again.

For the Cachopa brothers it will mean reuniting with younger brother Craig who has been part of the Aces set-up for the past two seasons.
 

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