***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[Bahnz]

Is it just me, or are slower balls bowled way too rarely in test cricket? They seem to have been labelled as an option only for the death overs in LO cricket, but whenever I see them used in test matches they tend to cause problems. People seem to have forgotten that for people like Chris Cairns, the slower ball was a genuine attacking weapon in the longer form of the game.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

I'd like to see more of Cairns's beamer-yorker, seemed like a great way to catch the batsman flat-footed.

 

[Bahnz]

tim southee career watch (yes im doing this to annoy whoever got annoyed by it last summer): 115 @ 30.06.

That was me, but I don't mind people talking about the 30-run barrier, as it's traditionally been seen as the difference between being a good bowler, and being a very good bowler. However, you ****s had better cut this **** out now, at least until Southee's average approaches 25 ().

 

[Beamer]

Is it just me, or are slower bowls bowled way too rarely in test cricket? They seem to have been labelled as an option only for the death overs in LO cricket, but whenever I see them used in test matches they tend to cause problems. People seem to have forgotten that for people like Chris Cairns, the slower ball was a genuine attacking weapon in the longer form of the game.

100 % agreed. This video (aftrer 1 minute) is my favourite slower ball/off cutter wicket of all time and I think it should be used far more than it is. Southee used it very well today.

 

[WindieWeathers]

That is all

 

[Flem274*]

And Southee, what can be said? I would argue that even Bond never bowled as consistently well as Southee has in the last 2 years. The fact that he appears to have finally added reverse swing (as well as a leg cutter) to his arsenal could be the tipping point that sees him transformed from a ruthlessly effective new ball bowler into a genuine attacking weapon at any stage of the innings.

I was just thinking of starting a Bond v Southee thread after todays play. Southee has done as much as Bond has, maybe more. Bond just never had a prolonged period of being terrible, but then he had the advantage of being 7 years older when he debuted.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Obviously a pretty disastrous day for us, I think unless New Zealand have a melt down or a couple of our batsmen play amazing innings this is done.

Southee was extraordinarily good today. Absolutely spot on from ball one to the end of the innings. For me, he has been the best bowler on show and is the reason NZ are in this position. Craig looks a solid enough spinner to me and he got Kirk with an excellent delivery. I think 4 wickets flattered him a bit as our lower order batted irresponsibly, but I can see a decent enough test finger spinner there which is promising.

I'm sorry, but why is Sodhi playing instead of Wagner? He was dreadful and most of the batters treated him with disdain. Too many long hops, not turning his leg break consistently, so really the same old problems I identified earlier in this thread. On one showing I can tell you Craig should be playing ahead of him at QPO and for the foreseeable future. Not wishing to goad NZ fans, but we have at least 3 leggies I can think of that are in a different class from Sodhi yet we're not rushing them into the side. I would send him back to FC and A team cricket to learn his trade.

As for WIndies, well I'm very disappointed with the batting, unsurprisingly. Gayle looked out of form but somehow survived long enough to play a decent innings. Powell I'm extremely worried about, missing a straight delivery after doing all the hard work against the new ball. Braithwaite is waiting to take his place and IMHO should be playing instead anyway. Darren Bravo played a very casual shot, rather like Ross in the 1st innings. I wont get too worried about him yet but it wasn't the best shot against a very poor bowler. Marlon Samuels is proving a big problem. The way he is getting out is troubling me, he has stopped moving his feet at all. This is not how he used to bat. Again, Jermaine Blackwood looks a million dollars for the HPC side so if this continues I'd be dropping him. Shiv is Shiv, utter class and I'm pretty sure he wpuld have batted for 2 days on that if anyone had been able to hang around. He looked so untroubled.

I did really enjoy our late bowling display. I think in that 45 minute burst we saw the potential Roach and JT have and that it is a pace attack that could cause teams a lot of problems. Roach was in much better rhythm and could have had 2/3 wickets to his name already. It's a shame it comes after the match has practically been lost but they were great signs for the future and the rest of the series.

People are playing for their futures when they go to the crease in the second innings.

Samuels

Edwards

Powell

All three of them will be replaced if they don't show anything in the second dig. Shilly is also on borrowed time because like i said the board are said to be considering letting Narine play now. On the Mason show right now a Bajan cricket coach said he watched the warm up match between WI and the Barbados X11 and he knew problems were coming because the whole game was shabby and lacked professionalism.

NZ are high on confidence and have a settled side while turmoil always seems to follow us...it looks like they've drawn first blood, Roach and Taylor bowling well late today is a good sign, put Narine with them and we may have an attack worthy of wearing the WI shirt. The funny thing is this is exactly how the first test went in NZ...only that time NZ had an even bigger lead...we'll need someone to stand up like Darren did if we are to get out of this....All i know is lose this series and Gibbo is in trouble.

 

[Bahnz]

I was just thinking of starting a Bond v Southee thread after todays play. Southee has done as much as Bond has, maybe more. Bond just never had a prolonged period of being terrible, but then he had the advantage of being 7 years older when he debuted.

Yeah, if Southee had been picked at the same time as Boult, then his career record would be 79 wickets at 23.46 which is not far behind Bond's 87 at 22. Bond also got to play 4 of his 18 tests against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, whereas only 1 of Southee's 18 tests during this period where played against minnow opposition. Take out Zimbang, and Bond took 62 wickets at 26.65 compared to Southee's 77 wickets at 23.71. Countering that is the fact that Bond started his career by bowling against one of the greatest batting lineups in the history of the game, and that permanently scarred his non-minnow career record. Bond (until very recently at least) was also a much greater threat with the older ball. Still, the fact that we're even having this conversation is indicative of what a monster Southee has become.

 

[straw man]

Southee has also become so much smarter as a bowler . Bowling that in-ducker to Samuels second ball was perfect - knew Samuels would want to leave and that a lot of batsmen have trouble picking his inswinger (and off-cutter). Possibly predicted that Samuels would walk across his crease a little too, making it very difficult for him to deal with inswing.

Funny how things changed as for a while Boult was characterised as the smart one and perhaps the one that needed to pull Southee into line every so often when he got erratic or let things drift. Whereas now Boult is the one getting over-excited or frustrated and bowling a little erratically.

 

[hendrix]

Southee has also become so much smarter as a bowler . Bowling that in-ducker to Samuels second ball was perfect - knew Samuels would want to leave and that a lot of batsmen have trouble picking his inswinger (and off-cutter). Possibly predicted that Samuels would walk across his crease a little too, making it very difficult for him to deal with inswing.

That wasn't an in swinger as such. The ball was reversing. It's pretty much his stock ball and the same one that got Gayle.

He still basically has the same tricks. Pitched up late outswing, with the off cutter as change up and the occasional bouncer. He's just far more accurate.

The one thing he has added is solid back-of-a-length bowling when the time calls for it.

 

[straw man]

As an aside, I am the same height as Fulton and always found batting really hard on account of this gangliness. It's like playing golf and only using a driver instead of a wedge for the approach shots.

The great mystery for me is not why Fulton keeps getting picked but why he chose to be an opening batsman of all things, He might as well have set his sights on being the All Black halfback.

Still averages 10 runs more than Blair Hartland though.

Have had the idea for a while now that very tall batsmen and doubly very solidly built batsmen like Fulton and Oram tend to decline very quickly when they age and their balance declines even just a little. Foot movement tends to go and moving all those long heavy levers around just gets out of sync.

Funnily enough I thought this had already happened to Fulton around five years ago when he stopped moving his feet, so was amazed when he was recalled at 34 and even moreso when he scored some runs. Reality has caught up now though. Just wish our replacement wasn't Rutherford.

 

[straw man]

That wasn't an in swinger as such. The ball was reversing. It's pretty much his stock ball and the same one that got Gayle.

Fair nuff

 

[Howsie]

Tim Southee is a once and a generation type bowler tbh, comparing young bowlers to him at the same stage of there careers isn't going to tell you much. I can't imagine we will see another young bowler like Southee in this country for quite some time.

#Blockying

Now for Williamson to get that average up over 50

 

[Kippax]

 

[Flem274*]

#Blockying

Now for Williamson to get that average up over 50

Matt Henry the mini-Southee says hi

 

[Bahnz]

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Have had the idea for a while now that very tall batsmen and doubly very solidly built batsmen like Fulton and Oram tend to decline very quickly when they age and their balance declines even just a little. Foot movement tends to go and moving all those long heavy levers around just gets out of sync.

Funnily enough I thought this had already happened to Fulton around five years ago when he stopped moving his feet, so was amazed when he was recalled at 34 and even moreso when he scored some runs. Reality has caught up now though. Just wish our replacement wasn't Rutherford.

Yeah footwork is very hard when you're that tall because by the time you've moved one clodhopper down the pitch any ball of decent pace will be past you. I suppose this is why Fulton is often hanging his bat a few feet outside his body.

I saw almost every ball of Fulton's hundreds against England and thought he was very lucky throughout not to catch an edge earlier, although tbf to him he made the most of his luck.

I would love an end to the opening batsman carousel as well. I like the idea of picking a guy and sticking with him but if averages less than 15 it's hard to justify continuing. I'd like to see Guptill and Latham opening but I know Guptill isn't a popular choice for various reasons.

 

[Flem274*]

(face)

edit: @ bahnz

 

[Prince EWS]

(face)

edit: @ bahnz

Lies. Don't you dare give Viktor the (face) and then try to weasel out of it.

Athlai would never do something like this.

 

[Flem274*]

That's because Athlai has no imagination.