***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[straw man]

To be honest, I think Williamson might've done just as well as Craig had he been given a bowl.

Ha, I hadn't even noticed Williamson wasn't on the bowling sheet - even with two other spinners that seems weird to me given we know he's a good 'bowler'.

On Fulton, I can't resist another little moan about our squad - we take two proven failures as openers and when one scores 1 and 0 and drops a catch in the first test, I'm still reticent about making the switch to the other option. I think Rutherford might be a good player in five years but I really believe the chasm between where he is now and where he needs to be is far too wide for him to cross it while in the NZ side. Currently all he does is repeat the same mistakes.

I've posted this before but right now we'd accept an opener that will:
- catch good
- home flat track bully good
- score runs when opposition or conditions are easy
- fail 90% of the rest of the time

That was Fulton for a little while. Guptill seems like he should be able to meet that low standard (score runs when pitch and ball movement are ODI-like), though last time he played tests he couldn't even do that. Papps is surely a joke - ODI reserve maybe but no tests. There is barely anyone else though.

 

[hendrix]

On those criteria Guptill is an option.

I like Flynn

 

[Bahnz]

Flynn has the problem that he's a lefty, and Hesson would like a LH/RH opening combo. For this reason, I'm not entirely convinced that Fulton will be dropped for the second test.

Guptill is the most likely to benefit from Fulton's implosion in the short term. But unless Kane decides to bite the bullet and move up to 1, I can't see any options that are likely to be a success in the longer run.

 

[straw man]

I was a Flynn fan for a long while, however have to acknowledge his lack of success at international level (even worse than Guptill) and the fact that nearly all his recent domestic runs were in easy conditions. Also not a good fielder.

Don't want Williamson to move to opener. It sounds like it shouldn't make a difference but I have a feeling it would. Plus then we'd have a gap at 3.

Edit: This whole Hesson lefty righty thing for openers is ridiculous. A) It doesn't matter that much and B) Picking two lefties to open would actually mean a lot more left/right batting combinations because the next three batsmen are all RH.

 

[Dan]

Mike Hesson's Ultimate Second Test XI:

Watling
Latham
Williamson
Taylor
McCullum
Anderson
Ronchi +
Sodhi
Southee
Craig
Boult

 

[Dan]

Dan's Ultimate Second Test XI:

Guptill
Latham
Williamson
Taylor
McCullum
Neesham
Watling +
Southee
Craig
Wagner
Boult

 

[Athlai]

Dan's Ultimate Second Test XI:

Guptill
Latham
Williamson
Taylor
McCullum
Neesham
Watling +
Southee
Craig
Wagner
Boult

Sign me up

 

[RxGM]

I don't think this was an issue in Wellington.

If it is, you can always chuck the ball to Kane for a few quickies.

It was an issue today though, we ran almost 30min overtime even though we bowled 40 overs of spin. I did not watch all of the days play so I don't know what caused it - but Tim Southee must be the slowest bowler in world cricket at walking back to his mark.

 

[RxGM]

I was a Flynn fan for a long while, however have to acknowledge his lack of success at international level (even worse than Guptill) and the fact that nearly all his recent domestic runs were in easy conditions. Also not a good fielder.

Don't want Williamson to move to opener. It sounds like it shouldn't make a difference but I have a feeling it would. Plus then we'd have a gap at 3.

Edit: This whole Hesson lefty righty thing for openers is ridiculous. A) It doesn't matter that much and B) Picking two lefties to open would actually mean a lot more left/right batting combinations because the next three batsmen are all RH.

If Neil Broom had not been completely ****house at the top of the order, Im sure he would have been the next cab off the rank

 

[Hurricane]

I agree with everything Strawman said in his last two posts.

The only thing I will elaborate on is that walking out to bat in the 3rd over of the game (as he normally does) is way easier than walking out to face the first ball. Yes the ball is just as shiny but it is a different experience to face the first over of a game and you need a strategy to survive it and experience at doing it.

I much prefer to have a walking wicket go in ahead of him (if that's what it comes down to) than he goes in there.

There is also just the psychological difference of being an opener vs being a 3. Growing up I played both opener and 3. Occassionally when I was number 3 I would walk out to bat in the first over of the game. It wouldn't phase me. I would bat to survive for 3-4 overs and then I would get on with it because I was a number 3 batsman. And I would generally bat at a good clip.
When I opened my goal was to see of the new ball blast, and then just hang around until the ten over mark, and then I would have difficulty changing gears and would usually play anchor man.

If you don't know where I am going with this - it is a long winded way of saying it is easier to bat 3 than open even if you walk out to bat early doors.

 

[hendrix]

You know, our current quandary with the openers actually comes back to Ryder screwing up, not McHesson.

had Ryder not screwed up, he would have taken Taylor's position at 4 for the Wellington test against India when his wife was due. Because both Rutherford and Fulton had failed in the first test, one of them (take your pick) would have been replaced by Latham. But Ryder screwing up meant that Latham had to take the vacant number 4 slot, so we had to keep both openers.

This meant that we were left with 2 proven failures, but noone else could be given a shot in that time frame.

 

[Hurricane]

Well according to Flem's stats R Taylor doesn't do well in the 3rd inning, so this is up to Baz really. He needs to fire and lead from the front. New Zealand collapse here and this could an edge of your seat finish to this test. In a way we are only 1 wicket down as Fulton doesn't count though

Just saw the highlights by the way, love J Taylor's bowling action. Quality.

 

[hendrix]

This is the third innings, not the fourth.

 

[Hurricane]

This is the third innings, not the fourth.

Don't know what your talking about

 

[Flem274*]

Ross averages 51 in the 4th dig. It's danger time right now however because he averages 28 in the third innings.

 

[Hurricane]

Ross averages 51 in the 4th dig. It's danger time right now however because he averages 28 in the third innings.

See my edited post - meant 3rd inning - just a Hurricane SNAFU

 

[Hurricane]

in the SL test victory didn't he score 74 in the third inning?

 

[Hurricane]

I've also posted about his uncanny knack of only scoring hundreds when he walks to the crease with the team score below 100.

.

What I would like to also know is how much does he average when walking out with less than 30 on the board vs over 100.

 

[Hurricane]

Assorted Craig wickets from this season. The cropping thing is being fixed as we speak so watch it a bit later if that's bothering you.

He obviously isn't going a lot of assistance from the pitches in New Zealand but he's certainly got a good action and release. I think he'll give it a real tweak in the right conditions but that's obviously guesswork to at least some degree. A real old fashioned offie in every sense.

1) When bowling over the wicket he gets into the danger area every time. They may work against him with a vigilant umpire.
2) He gets very side on and relies on a big pivot to deliver the ball - I will have to have a think about what that means for the action he puts on the ball.
3) He is very conscious of his follow through and fully completing it - from some angles it can look lazy on the odd occassion. This will hurt his loop.

 

[SteveNZ]

How did Lord Craig bowl?

Once upon a time, a Howick captain regularly didn't bowl Pidg Craig at all, gave Mitch bugger all overs (if not played him in 2nds) and batted Manu at 9 and lower. Mike Brearley eat your heart out.