***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[Flem274*]

Anyway, onto happier things...

Since what I like to think of as his coming of age hundred in Sri Lanka, Kane Williamson has 1183 runs at 47.32 from 15 matches, including 4 hundreds and 7 fifties. He's only failed twice - he averaged 10 in South Africa and 20 in England (though he did score a fifty in England).

He's proven himself against spin bowling and we already know he can take on all opposition at home since he denied South Africa back when he was a pretty poor test batsman, but his touring form to pace friendly countries remains the hole in his CV.

 

[Flem274*]

BJ Watling has played 15 tests (including this one) as the designated keeper. So far he has 923 runs @ 46.15 in this role. He has 3 hundreds and 6 fifties. His most notable performances include his match saving hundred against India and his tour to South Africa. He led the way in South Africa with 168 runs @ 42 from 2 tests. The only hole in his record is his one test match in England where he scored 30 runs at an average of 15.

 

[Hurricane]

KW played him well though. It was a great battle to watch.

I thought Kane was going to have a career average of 40 in test cricket when I first saw him on debut. After seeing this purple patch - who knows what he will become 3 years from now.

 

[Blakey]

I thought Kane was going to have a career average of 40 in test cricket when I first saw him on debut. After seeing this purple patch - who knows what he will become 3 years from now.

26

 

[Mike5181]

Anyway, onto happier things...

Since what I like to think of as his coming of age hundred in Sri Lanka, Kane Williamson has 1183 runs at 47.32 from 15 matches, including 4 hundreds and 7 fifties. He's only failed twice - he averaged 10 in South Africa and 20 in England (though he did score a fifty in England).

He's proven himself against spin bowling and we already know he can take on all opposition at home since he denied South Africa back when he was a pretty poor test batsman, but his touring form to pace friendly countries remains the hole in his CV.

I see no reason Williamson can't be a 50+ average batsman at test level.

 

[RxGM]

BJ Watling has played 15 tests (including this one) as the designated keeper. So far he has 923 runs @ 46.15 in this role. He has 3 hundreds and 6 fifties. His most notable performances include his match saving hundred against India and his tour to South Africa. He led the way in South Africa with 168 runs @ 42 from 2 tests. The only hole in his record is his one test match in England where he scored 30 runs at an average of 15.

IMO it is BJ Watling that has turned this batting unit (more so than any other factor) around, under Taylors captaincy typically only two batsman scored 30+ in any innings which resulted in a lot of scores in the 150-300 bracket..
BJ’s patience and composure at the crease has enabled runs to be scored around him by the middle and lower order which is really what has allowed us to turn 250 scores into 450 scores.
The game of what if is futile but … what if we had BJ at wk in Jamaica and Bangalore in 2012. Those games were there for the taking but we just didn’t get enough runs

 

[Immenso]

I think NZ have paid again for our very conservative / mediocrity hugging attitude to cricket. Fulton had no business being on this tour, someone with some guts and brains (Hesson?) should have seen what Guptill did on the last Windies tour - proving he thrives on these decks against this type of attack - and brought him instead to fill that 'experienced opener' slot. I reckon we missed a trick by leaving the last tours top run scorer at home and hanging on to 2 metre flop.

The other thing I'd say is that in this NZ team Kane is an opening batsman. He's always coming in against the new ball when an insignificant score has been made by one or both openers i.e. he is to all intents and purposes an opening batsman. I don't care who says he's not an opening batsmans backside or oooerr...he's a 3 or whatever, he is forced to do the job of an opening batsman time after time after time, and he's doing it very well. Opening the batting (i.e. facing the new ball, fresh bowlers, taking the shine off the ball) may be so incredibly tough, no-one can do it (break out the violins) but Kane is proving it can be done (from the number 3 slot).

Disagree with much of your reasoning here. Williamson's purple patch of last 18 months or so - much of which dovetailed with Ruds and Fults somehow producing (momentarily) NZs most productive opening partnership.

Don't disagree that Fults is now shot. But for a year or so he provided Kane with plenty of decent platforms, rather than Kane succeeding despite his openers. Of course may just be correlation.

 

[Howsie]

Not a fan, to be honest. They'll eventually be good enough to play in the same team consistently. Neesh needs to work on his bowling and we're there.

I reckon we'd need to find a quality spinner for that to ever happen. Even if Neesham improved a lot I still don't think he'll ever be good enough to play as a third seamer. If Sodhi became the next Shane Warne I could perhaps see it happen, but yeah... Two test class bowlers, an average seamer and a crap spinner along with Anderson. Eh.

It's good competition nonetheless, it'll hopefully bring the best out of both of them. I think in the long run Anderson will have to make it as a batsman anyway, I honestly can't see him bowling into his 30's. One of those two batting @ 6 (i'd still rather have Neesham at seven though) and someone like Doug Bracewell @ 8, a genuine bowler who potentially could average 25 with the bat would be nice IMO.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

So the most amount of test centuries before the age of 25 is Tendulkars 16, followed by Bradmans 13. While these feats are beyond KW, if he has a good next year and a bit there is no reason why he shouldn't equal Cooks 9 or even join Harvey, Smith and Sobers on 11. IIRC correctly we have South Africa, Pak and Sri Lanka home and away before then, so its only going to take just over a century a series to do so.

 

[Dan]

This is simply proof that if I fangirl over a player, they don't usually fail -- even if they do take some time to come good.

Steve Smith - check
Kane Williamson - check

 

[RxGM]

So the most amount of test centuries before the age of 25 is Tendulkars 16, followed by Bradmans 13. While these feats are beyond KW, if he has a good next year and a bit there is no reason why he shouldn't equal Cooks 9 or even join Harvey, Smith and Sobers on 11. IIRC correctly we have South Africa, Pak and Sri Lanka home and away before then, so its only going to take just over a century a series to do so.

South Africa is just ODIs

 

[BeeGee]

This is simply proof that if I fangirl over a player, they don't usually fail -- even if they do take some time to come good.

Steve Smith - check
Kane Williamson - check

How do you feel about Fulton?

 

[Howsie]

How do you feel about Fulton?

Or Sodhi

 

[Bahnz]

IMO it is BJ Watling that has turned this batting unit (more so than any other factor) around, under Taylors captaincy typically only two batsman scored 30+ in any innings which resulted in a lot of scores in the 150-300 bracket..
BJ’s patience and composure at the crease has enabled runs to be scored around him by the middle and lower order which is really what has allowed us to turn 250 scores into 450 scores.
The game of what if is futile but … what if we had BJ at wk in Jamaica and Bangalore in 2012. Those games were there for the taking but we just didn’t get enough runs

Don't really agree with this. I mean, yeah Watling is important, but all he's really done is replaced Daniel Vettori as our lower-middle order banker, and Vettori's presence in the lower-order was certainly not correlated with strong batting performances. The real driving force behind the turn-around has been the blossoming of KW and Taylor in the last 18 months. They (and to a lesser extent McCullum) have ensured that the guys like Anderson, Neesham and Watling have been coming to the crease with 200+ runs on the board and the opposition bowlers tired out.

 

[Dan]

...

 

[Bahnz]

 

[Hurricane]

I've been scoping out some West Indies forums and the drums are beating for a Permaul call up for the second test if Narine isn't an option.

 

[hendrix]

I see no reason Williamson can't be a 50+ average batsman at test level.

He's still suspect against quality pace bowling on fast wickets. I'm not sure he'll do well in Aus and SA unless he sorts that. No reason why he can't sort it.

 

[Flem274*]

I'm preparing a stats whore post for Ross and here's something for you: I've found Ross Taylor's weakness - in the third innings of a test he averages 28, compared to 67 for the first, 40 for the second and 51 for the fourth.

So basically try and avoid him if you're bowling to NZ in the first or last innings of a test.

 

[Howsie]

He's still suspect against quality pace bowling on fast wickets. I'm not sure he'll do well in Aus and SA unless he sorts that. No reason why he can't sort it.

I'd love to see him in Australia, reckon he'd go well. Not as much movement, but still quicker than most places around the world. Would suit his stroke play and you'd see him score a lot quicker IMO.