Who says so?They spell death for their team's hopes
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***Official*** India in New Zealand 2013/14
- Thread starter BeeGee
- Start date
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
Betting that Guptill has been with Blocky's sister or something.
Zinzan
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Blocky
Banned
Comparing someone with a strike rate of a hundred every four innings versus someone with a hundred every 40.... yeah, that's sane.
Blocky
Banned
This thinking is actually wrong, he averages just as highly when NZ lose as when they win.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
He's comparing the logic not the players
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
not convinced about Bennett in limited overs cricket but I like what they're going for anyway.
Blocky
Banned
Bradman didn't go missing against the top teams, and his scores almost always contributed to the success of his side.
Guptill is worth his weight in gold in the field and I'd have him in the T20 side where he doesn't complicate his approach and simply looks to hit from the first ball and comes off with a lot more consistency than he has in ODI or Tests. But I don't even see the debate here, I'm saying that New Zealand needs to break the curse of picking erratic inconsistent players who are either hit or miss and don't know how to contribute in their primary spot if they're not in their best form. Guptill has massive fluctuations in confidence and ability, which means in his entire career, he's been the guy who finds on average, one score per series played - meaning for the other four to six games, he's asking his team mates to step in.
This isn't just a recent thing either, he has struggled with this at the domestic level as much as he has at the international level. NZ needs to win series in order to do the talent justice, get people behind them and build better commercials to help them build a better test side. It's not merely coincidence that our best period in Test cricket post 80s came off the back of some very good ODI results from 1996 through to 2002, we had a competitive side, they won more series than they lost, they were ranking highly in the ratings and they had the income with which to build better facilities and coaching.
They did that on the back of players like Twose, Harris, Fleming, Astle, Cairns, Parore - all guys who could do a job on their good days or their bad.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
The Guptill thing is very much a non issue. If he snaps out of this poor form - and it is poor form because he was exceptional last year - than we're good. If not, call up Latham.
And yeah, it's gotta be Latham well ahead of everyone else for that slot at the moment. He was very unlucky to miss out on the squad.
And yeah, it's gotta be Latham well ahead of everyone else for that slot at the moment. He was very unlucky to miss out on the squad.
Flem274*
123/5
I think you're looking back on them with rose tinted glasses. The main criticism of Fleming all career was too many 30s. He averaged 32, Harris less than 30, Parore wasn't up to much with the bat either.
In any case, even if I were to accept Guptill has a massively inflated average and secretly sucks (I don't), you still haven't found me a better player to bring in. Papps is an anchor who is very boundary reliant, KW opening requires a new middle order bat (and Mitchell ain't our boy yet) and Watling had a couple of goes at opening and failed. Latham is probably the best of the bunch but he isn't a noted strike rotater either, and his ODI strike rate backs that up.
Guptill is it, love him or irrationally hate him.
In any case, even if I were to accept Guptill has a massively inflated average and secretly sucks (I don't), you still haven't found me a better player to bring in. Papps is an anchor who is very boundary reliant, KW opening requires a new middle order bat (and Mitchell ain't our boy yet) and Watling had a couple of goes at opening and failed. Latham is probably the best of the bunch but he isn't a noted strike rotater either, and his ODI strike rate backs that up.
Guptill is it, love him or irrationally hate him.
Immenso
International Vice-Captain
Congratulations Hamish Bennett! I'm delighted for him, what a comeback.
I'm more pleased to see he is near the squad/team. Rather than specifically focused on this ODI series.
He did bowl really well in last season Ford Trophy which was his first games back, albeit only for 2 wickets from 3 games IIRC. I can still vividly picture that in swinging yorker to clean up D Mitchell. I watched those spells in full on the vault several times.
Not so flash in HRV this year, lack of wickets, although RPO was ok for seamer in NZ conditions. But it's that he is potentially now positioning for a Wagner challenge in test cricket that I am really excited. (Although I'm ok with Wagners efforts and returns as third seamer, no disrespect, but in my head the potential balance of Bennett as an impact third seamer backed by Anderson as tight 4th seamer has me really excited).
I'm more pleased to see he is near the squad/team. Rather than specifically focused on this ODI series.
He did bowl really well in last season Ford Trophy which was his first games back, albeit only for 2 wickets from 3 games IIRC. I can still vividly picture that in swinging yorker to clean up D Mitchell. I watched those spells in full on the vault several times.
Not so flash in HRV this year, lack of wickets, although RPO was ok for seamer in NZ conditions. But it's that he is potentially now positioning for a Wagner challenge in test cricket that I am really excited. (Although I'm ok with Wagners efforts and returns as third seamer, no disrespect, but in my head the potential balance of Bennett as an impact third seamer backed by Anderson as tight 4th seamer has me really excited).
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
I was actually advocating a wee while ago for us to have Williamson opening the batting, but that was back when we still had guys like Ellis in the team.
We have a very settled team at the moment. Even if they've only played a few games with this lineup, everyone in the team easily justifies their place. There's not really anyone that hasn't done something impressive at international level.
So I don't want too much shuffling.
If Guptill does eventually get removed due to a continuation of his poor form, then he should be replaced by Latham. Limit the shuffling and have a bit of continuity going into the world cup.
We have a very settled team at the moment. Even if they've only played a few games with this lineup, everyone in the team easily justifies their place. There's not really anyone that hasn't done something impressive at international level.
So I don't want too much shuffling.
If Guptill does eventually get removed due to a continuation of his poor form, then he should be replaced by Latham. Limit the shuffling and have a bit of continuity going into the world cup.
_Ed_
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Yeah, great to see him back. And I really hope he can stay on the park now - he's been through more than enough injury-wise.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, but it was a very different era though. Back in the 90's-00's naturally more conservative batsmen in combination with kinder field placement rules meant slower strike rates and consequently lower averages. Chris Cairns averaged 29 at a strike rate of 84, and we all remember how much of a beast he was seen to be. Parore was rightly viewed as a very handy lower order bat and Astle was seen as a real dasher even with a strike rate that was only ever in the mid 70's. In those days an average in the 30-35 range was definitely worth at least what an average in the 35-40 range is today.
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Blocky
Banned
Fleming may not have pressed on as often but he was far more consistent in getting starts and you could build a plan around him, Parore and Harris were finishers, again, they'd come in and do a job for the side. Guptill, once you look at the big three, doesn't perform at all, that is not up for debate, his stats very clearly prove it. I'd say Guptill is on his last chance internationally and one score in this series won't save him, in fact I'd almost stake a claim that he won't be our first choice opening bat by the world cup.