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***Official*** India in New Zealand 2013/14

Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
Blocky said:
After further thought, MItchell is the guy I'd bring in and ask to bat at 5. I'd either push Taylor up one or bring McCullum to 3. What we lack in the field, we'll make up with a more consistent approach at the crease. But I can understand that you've both been brought up on inconsistent NZ sides that challenge the best teams on their day through stand out performances by singular players, rather than a team that can consistently find ways to win like we used to have in the late 90s.
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didnt take long for the agribusiness boom to expose itself. mitchell has talent but he's no odi player right now. mccullum sucks at three or four. taylor is best at four where he can play spin and the old ball.

also, dont assume edmunds is 12.

edit: in a competition where 350 played 350 on a regular basis Mitchell averaged a whopping 27. he should be no where near the odi team.
 
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hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Blocky said:
Guptill will bat well once every six occasions and **** for the rest. He's a horrible player with no plan B and has to be in the peak of confidence and form to put together an innings. Such a headcase, NZ should never pick him.

Ryder showed a lot more patience and I think this will be key, if he plays to his strengths, teams will struggle to restrict him and/or get him out while he's batting well. He just needs to realise that hitting aerial cover shots isn't for him when he can easily keep it along the ground. The moment they bowl at his pads, he has so many options for six, I'd also like to see him return to hitting the ball straighter like he used to.

Taylor starting to show some signs that he can bat time and innings, but he needs to study some of the Indians for how they create scoring options, he's still a bit too one dimensional as a player and his off side scoring against spin in particular needs to improve.

Williamson showed that he's still flakey, still likely to get himself out for a weak Mark Waugh style dismissal even when well set. Anderson showed that he's got power in the masses, a calm head on his shoulders and should only get better with time. I'm also liking McCullum down the order, he may not be hitting big scores yet, but he's providing great momentum at the end. I'd almost consider opening with Williamson and Ryder, dropping Guptill completely (flakey ****er) and alternating either with Munro,Latham or Neesham depending on need in the middle order. Watling could come into that mix too as a bat.

Bowling wise, Milne still isn't the finished product, none of the bowlers seemed to be able to find the yorker length on demand (unlike Kumar, who bowled exceptionally) and for some reason, McCullum needs to be reminded that Ryder and Williamson not only provide some very decent middle overs, but they generally get wickets while doing it too.
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Agree with most of these points but you're exaggerating a touch on some of them.

I don't think Guptill's a good batsman and he's awful to watch right now. He does however have an excellent ODI record so deserves a touch of perseverance. Long term, Latham should be there.

Taylor was unlucky to get out when he did as he was about to accelerate, but the crucial thing about his and Williamson's innings is that it meant we didn't get owned by the Indian spinners. That's quite big for NZ.

Southee can bowl a yorker on demand. Milne looked threatening against every batsman not named Virat Kohli.
 
Blocky

Blocky

Banned
SteveNZ said:
I get sick every time I hear the 'take this out, take that out' complete and utter rubbish. It was him batting though, right? Against a fair, not amazing, but fair England side - one a very well paced chase at Lord's no less and an even better knock the second time around. Why that should be 'taken out' makes me laugh. He didn't pull those innings out of a coupon book.

Daryl Mitchell? My favourite part about him is his consistent average of 30 and under, at domestic level - probably at a worse strike rate than Gup. Never mind - I just saw your location. Dazza from Hamilton gets the tick. Duane Monkley in the frame as well
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Only, he averages 42 in first class cricket in his first couple of seasons, has shown recently that he's managed to adapt and be able to start scoring consistently in T20 domestic cricket for the Knights and only has 18 Limited A matches to call on, so this "consistently averaged under 30" makes me laugh, compare anyone bar Williamson in the current side at the same point in their domestic careers and he'll rate favorably. And to be honest, I'd take an average of 27 versus Guptill's inflated average of 38.
 
Blocky

Blocky

Banned
hendrix said:
Agree with most of these points but you're exaggerating a touch on some of them.

I don't think Guptill's a good batsman and he's awful to watch right now. He does however have an excellent ODI record so deserves a touch of perseverance. Long term, Latham should be there.

Taylor was unlucky to get out when he did as he was about to accelerate, but the crucial thing about his and Williamson's innings is that it meant we didn't get owned by the Indian spinners. That's quite big for NZ.

Southee can bowl a yorker on demand. Milne looked threatening against every batsman not named Virat Kohli.
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I think Williamson played a great part in the innings, don't get me wrong - I also think Taylor batted well but my concern is that we relied on Anderson and Ronchi to finish things strongly for us, in the second innings with India, you saw two set batsman get themselves out at a similar time in the innings as Williamson and Taylor and India weren't able to recover because the run rate required was too high. I'd like to see Williamson and Taylor add another run per over during their partnership in order to set us up for the 320 that we probably should have got out there.

Guptill reminds me of Franklin, capable of some very good innings where everything goes his way, but not mentally strong enough and too reliant how he feels when hes at the crease to be consistent enough for us to create plans around what he is likely to do at the top of the innings. Yes, he's an amazing fielder and he's well liked within the team unit, but the kid just doesn't have it mentally at the moment.
 
Blocky

Blocky

Banned
hendrix said:
Agree with most of these points but you're exaggerating a touch on some of them.

I don't think Guptill's a good batsman and he's awful to watch right now. He does however have an excellent ODI record so deserves a touch of perseverance. Long term, Latham should be there.

Taylor was unlucky to get out when he did as he was about to accelerate, but the crucial thing about his and Williamson's innings is that it meant we didn't get owned by the Indian spinners. That's quite big for NZ.

Southee can bowl a yorker on demand. Milne looked threatening against every batsman not named Virat Kohli.
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As for Milne - look I think he bowled better than I've seen and its a good progression including the recent T20s but he still hasn't found a natural length, is very straight up and down with little movement at all shown and offers good batsman an opportunity to score fast. For roughing up players like Raina and the tail end, he'll always be a trouble for them - but most of the top order players around don't mind pace as long as it doesn't come with movement and/or bounce - i.e why Mitchell Johnson was so effective.
 
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Blocky said:
I think Williamson played a great part in the innings, don't get me wrong - I also think Taylor batted well but my concern is that we relied on Anderson and Ronchi to finish things strongly for us, in the second innings with India, you saw two set batsman get themselves out at a similar time in the innings as Williamson and Taylor and India weren't able to recover because the run rate required was too high. I'd like to see Williamson and Taylor add another run per over during their partnership in order to set us up for the 320 that we probably should have got out there.
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The first point is that Virat Kohli is a ridiculously good ODI batsman. But more importantly, the NZ team is very different from India.

India does not have good death bowlers. At all. They got very lucky in those last 5 overs in that NZ failed to get the strike to Anderson. It's a very bankable plan to have McCullum, Anderson, Ronchi et al hit out in the last 10 overs. Chances are they'll put on big runs.

In contrast, India can't back their lower order beyond Dhoni to score big runs at the end. Dhoni and Kohli knew it was pretty much up to them, so they had to score the runs when they could, even if it risked losing their wicket. In the end, that cost them the match, too. Even only needing 9 an over of the last 9, they still needed to keep scoring.
 
Blocky

Blocky

Banned
hendrix said:
The first point is that Virat Kohli is a ridiculously good ODI batsman. But more importantly, the NZ team is very different from India.

India does not have good death bowlers. At all. They got very lucky in those last 5 overs in that NZ failed to get the strike to Anderson. It's a very bankable plan to have McCullum, Anderson, Ronchi et al hit out in the last 10 overs. Chances are they'll put on big runs.

In contrast, India can't back their lower order beyond Dhoni to score big runs at the end. Dhoni and Kohli knew it was pretty much up to them, so they had to score the runs when they could, even if it risked losing their wicket. In the end, that cost them the match, too. Even only needing 9 an over of the last 9, they still needed to keep scoring.
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Kohli seems to have an almost supernatural ability to time the ball and hit powerful shots with limited movement, but watch the way he bats, the urgency and how he constantly looks to find gaps with deft touches and strikes. Dhoni is another guy who uses the crease in order to make balls into what he wants them to be to find singles. It's just a learning opportunity for Taylor and Williamson - they may not have the natural timing of those two but they could learn a lot about game plan and consistency, even though I think India left it far too late to go at the bowling which is what resulted in them being at nine an over for the last nine. In many ways, they did what NZ did in the first innings and relied on being able to find ninety in the last ten in order to reach the score.

I thought Kumar bowled much better at the death than our bowlers did, Shami alternated between very good and very bad, Sharma - just don't bowl half trackers to Corey Anderson to be fair.... I just think for both sides, they need to do more with the 20th to 40th overs. Kohli looked to be finding things so easy out there but still left his acceleration till about the 34th over - his experience indicates that he's used to being the not out batsman who times the inning perfectly, but that strategy contains the risk of "what happens if I get out?"

Same risk NZ had when they spent a large part of the innings at 4 runs an over.
 
KiWiNiNjA

KiWiNiNjA

International Coach
Blocky said:
And 44.34 in ODI's on the back of two amazing not out innings in a row in England. Take those out of the equation and you're left with him putting NZ on the back foot in a bunch of innings.
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Donald Bradman only averages 30.27 in Tests, once you remove all his hundreds, and not outs. What a scrub!
 
ohnoitsyou

ohnoitsyou

International Regular
Imo Guptill going big in ODI's once every 6th or so innings is actually a good thing. When he goes big, we win. When he doesn't there are still 6 other very capable batsmen left.
 
KiWiNiNjA

KiWiNiNjA

International Coach
Well, turns out I can make it to all days of the Wellington Test, so have just bought a Match Pass. :)

Might have to leave before tea on the 5th day, but NZ should have the match (and series) wrapped up by then.
 
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