Kallis retires from Tests

[smash84]

Just tell me who is more likely to keep things tight and get a couple of wickets... Border or Kallis? You're SEVERELY underestimating the value of a good 5th bowler just like lots of others on here.

So many times we see pressure built by the great bowlers being released by the part timers. Part timers should only come in for 2-3 overs when it's a very long innings and even the 4th, 5th bowlers look like they'll have to bowl lots.

It seems that you are the one who is actually over estimating the value of a 5th bowler

 

[ankitj]

It seems that you are the one who is actually over estimating the value of a 5th bowler

There was a series SA played earlier this year (I can't remember against whom) where Kallis was not available to bowl. The SA attack suddenly appeared lacking depth once the front line bowlers were done bowling their spells. Kallis is a fine, fine bowler. He just has a small (but very important) role because of who he plays alongside.

 

[OverratedSanity]

There was a series SA played earlier this year (I can't remember against whom) where Kallis was not available to bowl. The SA attack suddenly appeared lacking depth once the front line bowlers were done bowling their spells. Kallis is a fine, fine bowler. He just has a small (but very important) role because who he plays alongside.

Oz tour. Was just about to say that.
He was the best bowler and after he pulled up, Australia just smashed the others

 

[Camo999]

Kallis is not necessarily always the '5th bowler' though. He's usually a third or fourth paceman allowing SA the versatility of a playing a front line spinner who has often been an inferior bowler to Kallis anyway.

 

[Camo999]

It’s interesting looking at the mixed reaction to Kallis in this thread. He certainly has the statistics as one of the best all-rounders the game has ever seen. I feel a bit cheated that I’ve never personally quite seen the best of him. As possibly the greatest all-rounder of all time you’d expect him to have a huge impact in the biggest matches, series and tournaments in which he has played.

I never even saw Sobers play but I’ve heard all about the 254 against Lillee which Bradman rated the best innings he saw in Australia. 365*. Six sixes in an over. The century in the tied test.

In my recollection Kallis has tended to perform perfectly acceptably rather than dominate many big occasions and doesn’t seem to have the ‘signature moments’ that immediately spring to mind. It’s not his fault SA were hammered by the Aussies for a decade but as his team’s best player, he needed to turn a few more of his useful 50s into 150+ to really hurt the opposition. He’s played 5 World Cups and has a decent batting average but hasn’t been able to get his team over the line in any knock-out games or finals like a Ponting, Warne, De Silva, Gilchrist or Dhoni have.

Is he a genuine all-rounder? Well, he’s in the top 30 test wicket takers of all time – more than just a useful part timer. It’s perfectly understandable if his WPM is a tad lower than most front line bowlers.

 

[Garson007]

The fact of the matter is that he has a massive positive nett impact on the match in favour of his team. He is not going to win you match. He is however always going to give you an advantage over the other team.

Kallis is basically a handicap in South Africa's favour and we will dearly miss him when our team is to be on a level playing field with all other teams.

 

[harsh.ag]

A short list of his good all-round performances:

Against West Indies, Cape Town, 1999 - 110 and 88* + 7/124
Against England, Manchester, 1998 - 132 and DNB + 4/81
Against Zimbabwe, Bloemfontein, 1999 - 64 nd DNB + 7/112
Against Bangladesh, Potchefstroom, 2002 - 139* and DNB + 7/47
Against Sri Lanka, Centurion, 2002 - 84 and 6 + 7/110
Against Pakistan, Cape Town, 2007 - 28 and 51 + 6/78

A lot of 2 wicket contributions in matches where he made a century, of course, which is such a bonus.

 

[smash84]

when did I ever say that Kallis isn't a great player?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Who said that you said that he's not a great player?

 

[smash84]

oh ok, my bad, I thought harsh was pointing out his all round performances to convince me on Kalllis's all round skills

 

[harsh.ag]

Nah I didn't intend to get into the debate. Plus I already know you think he is a great player

But seriously, all-round performance wise, it would be pretty darn difficult to better this special from Botham: Against India , Mumbai, 1980 - 114 and DNB + 13/106 Even though it was against India

 

[Spark]

There was a series SA played earlier this year (I can't remember against whom) where Kallis was not available to bowl. The SA attack suddenly appeared lacking depth once the front line bowlers were done bowling their spells. Kallis is a fine, fine bowler. He just has a small (but very important) role because of who he plays alongside.

This was Adelaide, wasn't it? Came into the attack, took three wickets in no time and looked by a distance the most dangerous bowler, then got injured.

Genuine 5th bowlers are amazingly useful. Give you flexibility, gives your bowlers a rest, means your attack never releases pressure. A huge asset in the modern game, which is the yardstick by which Kallis has to be judged.

 

[the big bambino]

Just tell me who is more likely to keep things tight and get a couple of wickets... Border or Kallis? You're SEVERELY underestimating the value of a good 5th bowler just like lots of others on here.

So many times we see pressure built by the great bowlers being released by the part timers. Part timers should only come in for 2-3 overs when it's a very long innings and even the 4th, 5th bowlers look like they'll have to bowl lots.

I agree. The other thing about a good 5th bowling option is that they spread the work load for your main strikers without unduly compromising your wicket taking ability. Considering the workload and injuries suffered by fast bowlers a side would be very lucky to be able to throw the ball to a Sobers or Kallis for 15 overs. Morkel and Steyn have been more resilient than most fast bowlers and you wonder if Kallis' presence has played a part.

 

[GuyFromLancs]

Why?

No-one has ever seriously claimed Kallis is equal to Brian Lara as a batsman, yet Sobers is often compared and even said to be greater.

Most players who played with Sobers or against him said he was a cut above everyone else. I don't recall anyone claiming the same of Kallis.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Kallis is a cut above everyone else.

 

[GuyFromLancs]

Kallis is a cut above everyone else.

I can't recall ever thinking that. Not one match

I remember nearly always thinking he was a woderfully rounded cricketer, but never a cut above.

Not like nearly everyone of a certain age describes Sobers

 

[91Jmay]

Great point mentioned above. Kallis was not the South African 5th bowler for most of his career, he was there 4th bowler as he was better than which ever spinner they had for his entire career. Certainly shows you just how valuable he was.

 

[Spark]

I can't recall ever thinking that. Not one match

I remember nearly always thinking he was a woderfully rounded cricketer, but never a cut above.

Not like nearly everyone of a certain age describes Sobers

3rd Test: South Africa v India at Cape Town, Jan 2-6, 2011 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

There's one match.

 

[The Battlers Prince]

When teams have been lucky enough to have South Africa 2 down, relatively cheaply, this man walks out and all hope of collapse is almost single handedly taken out of the equation. I know, I’ve watched it too many times to think it’s a fluke. Kallis has a very simplistic technique, and he has worked at becoming the best batsman he can, there have been times too, when he has been the best the world over. 19 years at the top level, 8 of which he’s averaged over 64 with the bat, 5-1000+ runs/calendar year. I think that being an Australian blessed with the likes of Border and S. Waugh, I begin to appreciate how other countries must feel when someone of that mental strength walks to the crease. South Africa are losing a truly great player.

 

[CricAddict]

No-one has ever seriously claimed Kallis is equal to Brian Lara as a batsman, yet Sobers is often compared and even said to be greater.

Most players who played with Sobers or against him said he was a cut above everyone else. I don't recall anyone claiming the same of Kallis.

Kallis:Tendulkar::Sobers:Lara