akilana
International 12th Man
What. Lara a better slip filelder?
Ponting is better than both but Kallis is better than Lara.
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Kallis retires from Tests
- Thread starter Spark
- Start date
Ponting is better than both but Kallis is better than Lara.
Woosh!
Good heavens! McGrath retired after the Ashes in Jan and then played the WC and called it a day in April. Jesus, he did not prolong his ODI career for another year and a half after retiring from test cricket like Kallis has done. Seriously, I should take a leaf out of centurymaker's book here. Read before you reply please and don't resort to strawman examples and arguments.
And for the record, I did not say SA players valued ODIs more than tests. I said they were more like the SC teams in that they seem to value ODIs and WCs more than teams like Australia and England. You don't even know what you're arguing man, up your game akilana. Atrocious posting.
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GuyFromLancs
State Vice-Captain
The logic of this claim is, to put it mildly, elusive. It would be just as easy to argue the reverse.
GuyFromLancs
State Vice-Captain
Please do then.
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
Come on guys, Kallis is a class all-rounder. He's easily the best player from the last 20 years. If he had played for another team, I am sure he would've had a much bigger role to play as a fast bowler and therefore his wpm wouldn't be as low. It may have impacted his batting but not so much so that he wouldn't have been a great as a batsman alone.
GuyFromLancs
State Vice-Captain
Remember when Flintoff approached his pomp? Say summer 03, the excitement. At last, a proper allrounder!
Not to say Fred was better. No. I mean Kallis was a proper batsman. But the ... the alpha allrounder knocks over wickets, then hits big.
Everyone loves the guy who bowls 4/90 then slugs 40 at a run a ball.
Of course bowling allrounders rule. Wickets win matches. All of the 80s quartet could seriously bowl. This isn't a coincidence either.
Not to say Fred was better. No. I mean Kallis was a proper batsman. But the ... the alpha allrounder knocks over wickets, then hits big.
Everyone loves the guy who bowls 4/90 then slugs 40 at a run a ball.
Of course bowling allrounders rule. Wickets win matches. All of the 80s quartet could seriously bowl. This isn't a coincidence either.
GuyFromLancs
State Vice-Captain
A 'batting allrounder' doesn't belong in that list
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
In two all time teams, you'd strike a nice balance if one team contained Tendulkar at 4 and Sobers at 6, and the other contained Kallis at 4 and Lara at 6. Would balance nicely.
To compare Sobers and Kallis is kinda silly though, vastly different batsmen...
To compare Sobers and Kallis is kinda silly though, vastly different batsmen...
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
I agree. I have moved away from the idea of bowling all rounders being better. An argument in favour of batting all rounders like Kallis is that they allow you to play a 4+1 bowling attack without compromising the batting strength. A bowling all rounder is generally not good enough to bat in top 6, so he can't help you field a 4+1 attack. If he is part of 4 man attack we get a strong tail end bat but forces the captain to use a trundler as 5th bowler.
Considering this, the value Kallis brought to SA team was just immense. He is possibly the best 5th bowler there has ever been. Whenever he bowled to give break to front line fast bowlers, it never felt like the pressure was released and there were easy runs to be scored. He is a terribly undervalued bowler. And I am inclined to believe that he might be a better bowler than Sobers.
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smash84
The Tiger King
how come?
This is the way the game is set up.
I would love to listen to your counter argument
OverratedSanity
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A great batting AR and a great bowling AR are equally valuable FFS. They'd complement each other perfectly. That's why I d have both Sobers and Imran in my XI
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
Read my post. The argument indeed can be made both ways.
how come?
This is the way the game is set up.
I would love to listen to your counter argument
social
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Why?
smash84
The Tiger King
And at least not pulling numbers out of my arse to pull down certain players
smash84
The Tiger King
There are 2 points that I would use to counter your argument.
1) You can rotate your bowlers in such a way that you don't need a 5th bowler
2) Even bowlers like Allan Border can turn their arm over and keep things in test matches. Unless your 5th bowler is really outstanding at wicket taking it is difficult to see much value of a 5th bowler, the same can't be said of a bowling all rounder who averages mid 30s at number 8 or 9.
Additionally
OverratedSanity
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Doesn't make sense. Guys like allan Border and Viv Richards can turn their arm over but no, they won't keep things tight for too long and will provide precious few wickets. All rounders like Sobers and Kallis can keep things very tight and break partnerships regularly.
Having good backup to your strike bowlers is essential. Smart batsmen will see off the more dangerous bowlers and cash in on the backup like we've seen India do in this series.
They're both equally valuable to a team and ideally you'd have someone one of each. Perfect balance with no compromise
smash84
The Tiger King
Why would you need a 5th bowler to keep things tight for too long? The whole concept is to get a few overs in without conceding too many runs. With the amount of overs that the likes of Kallis and Sobers will probably put in in one day they would hardly get one wicket. I doubt you would want Sobers to bowl 15 overs in a day to get 1 wicket.
OverratedSanity
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Just tell me who is more likely to keep things tight and get a couple of wickets... Border or Kallis? You're SEVERELY underestimating the value of a good 5th bowler just like lots of others on here.
So many times we see pressure built by the great bowlers being released by the part timers. Part timers should only come in for 2-3 overs when it's a very long innings and even the 4th, 5th bowlers look like they'll have to bowl lots.