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***Official*** West Indies in New Zealand 2013/14

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Good points. However wouldn't bones and ligaments be put under more stress if you're fatter? I just feel like it really has to go both ways across the board. I can see how saying "the faster someone bowls the more athletic they must be and therefore the less likely they are to get injured" is stupid. However surely it's equally stupid to say "if you want to avoid injury just become really fat and unfit because you'll be incapable of straining hard enough to hurt yourself".
It certainly does go both ways. Which is why I'm saying I argued it's unreasonable to assume international bowlers can bowl for longer than less fit bowlers without getting injured just because they're fitter. No matter what level of cricket you play a fast bowler will always be aiming to push him/herself so the chance of injury remains. Probably my last post on the subject :p
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
If Williamson scores another 306 runs this innings he'll reach 2000 and be the first NZer to make a triple hundred.

#postsForBahnz :ph34r:
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Don't get me wrong, I think Rutherford is a talented batsman, but I just don't think he's a test opener. Far too many flaws in his technique. Rutherford's flaws are less exposed at domestic level.
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Absolutely agree. We're better off picking Latham as a batsman who doesn't have a massive bias to playing on a particular side of the wicket. Raval looks good too.

I think that Rutherford was picked hoping he might be a long term option but it's pretty clear now that he, like Guptill, will never be a test match opener.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Fulton's experience helps him adapt imo. He's scored a lot of first class runs and knows how to work out a method to score and keep his head screwed on even when his technique is being exposed because he's had the experience of being ripped to shreds (first test stint) and building himself back up.

Rutherford hasn't had that, he's just blazed away through the covers all the way to test level and now it isn't working.
On the topic of Fulton. He has turned himself into an opener. But it looks like he understands what it means to be an opener in how he paces his innings. He is not the finished product as he likes a nibble outside off stump where seasoned openers are great at letting the ball go.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Fulton's experience helps him adapt imo. He's scored a lot of first class runs and knows how to work out a method to score and keep his head screwed on even when his technique is being exposed because he's had the experience of being ripped to shreds (first test stint) and building himself back up.

Rutherford hasn't had that, he's just blazed away through the covers all the way to test level and now it isn't working.
The difference is that Fulton is not picked as a long term option. Him having obvious technical issues is not as damning as Rutherford because he's been selected as a stop-gap measure until we can genuinely get the long term options into the team.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Can we stop using the word "never" please, especially when applied to someone who is 24-25?

A few years ago we were all pretty certain Fulton would never be a test batsman, let alone an opener.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Can we stop using the word "never" please, especially when applied to someone who is 24-25?

A few years ago we were all pretty certain Fulton would never be a test batsman, let alone an opener.
Ok fair enough.

Fulton still isn't a test quality batsman, FWIW. He's a nice stop gap option though.
 

Bahnz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Kinda funny that you chose to use the words "massive bias" in a post proposing the selection of Latham.
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Can we stop using the word "never" please, especially when applied to someone who is 24-25?

A few years ago we were all pretty certain Fulton would never be a test batsman, let alone an opener.
Phlegm will never be a great poster. Has potential but his technique is dire.
 

Flem274*

123/5
The difference is that Fulton is not picked as a long term option. Him having obvious technical issues is not as damning as Rutherford because he's been selected as a stop-gap measure until we can genuinely get the long term options into the team.
Fulton having obvious technical issues is just as problematic, but he finds a way to score. He is there to score runs because he is the best available, not as a sacrificial lamb. He was the best opener domestically before selection and he's the best test opener we have.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Ok fair enough.

Fulton still isn't a test quality batsman, FWIW. He's a nice stop gap option though.
Fulton doesn't look like a test batsman, but he's been performing like one in New Zealand and subcontinental conditions. It may or may not last, but a guy who can score in several but not all conditions is still a test standard batsman. Sehwag had a lolworthy technique and couldn't buy a run in some countries. Did that make him not a test batsman?
 

Flem274*

123/5
Fulton is such an awesome leg side troll. It's going to get him out sometimes but he's so good at turning straight and even balls a little outside off into legside runs. He really forces the bowler to change their line and considering his prodding outside off is a work in progress this is a good thing.
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Not sure i like permaul half-volleys being patted back to him. Not seeing much from him so far as long as he doesn't get confident.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Kinda funny that you chose to use the words "massive bias" in a post proposing the selection of Latham.
:laugh:

Do you not have any favourites? He looks a good player. I'm not a national selector, I'm allowed to have my biases.

Fulton having obvious technical issues is just as problematic, but he finds a way to score. He is there to score runs because he is the best available, not as a sacrificial lamb. He was the best opener domestically before selection and he's the best test opener we have.
Fulton doesn't look like a test batsman, but he's been performing like one in New Zealand and subcontinental conditions. It may or may not last, but a guy who can score in several but not all conditions is still a test standard batsman. Sehwag had a lolworthy technique and couldn't buy a run in some countries. Did that make him not a test batsman?
Sehwag averaged 50 in test match cricket. His technique was not lolworthy at all. He had above average technique, supremely fast hands and a great eye. Fulton has none of this. Sehwag could play any shot in the book. Fulton can't.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Fulton pick because yes, he has developed the ability to understand his limitations and still score runs. That's good for the team. But if we're going to pick young players, they shouldn't be limited because all that means is that they become more set in their limitations. When you're a limited player the only way to score is to play to your strengths.

If a young player has a weakness I'd rather they try to correct it than become entrenched in their technique and learn how to play with that weakness.

So I think there's a big difference between picking a young limited player and an old limited player.
 
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BeeGee

International Captain
OK, you bastards, time for me to wade in on this injury subject.

I am a fat man and I can tell you that when I'm on the couch and I have to reach for the remote or return to the kitchen for a second helping of pie, I strain my muscles and tendons every bit as much as a fast bowler bowling a ten over spell. And do I get injured? No. Well, apart from that one time I tripped over the cat, but that had extenuating circumstances.
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Not sure i like permaul half-volleys being patted back to him. Not seeing much from him so far as long as he doesn't get confident.
Wonder if Fulton will try to hit one through the line for six soon. Has really struggled to turn over the strike recently. I'm usually the last person to criticise an NZ opener for scoring slowly but the new ball is not a threat today so can't use 'seeing off the new ball' as an excuse.

Oh and there's the woomphah! shot
 

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