***Official*** West Indies in New Zealand 2013/14

[thierry henry]

A fat bloke CAN'T strain his body as much because his fitness and athleticism prevent him moving his body fast enough to put any real strain on his body. His body will still have similar physical limits to a top athlete difference is he doesn't approach them.

I find this hard to believe. One things for sure, it certainly doesn't provide much encouragement to get in shape! Anyway, first hand experience is I'm much more injury prone when trying to bowl the same as always but carrying more weight.

 

[BeeGee]

Rutherford really does not look like a test match opener to me. His technique is even looser than Powell's.

He has never been a test opener. When he was selected the cupboard was bare.

How is Raval going? Is he the next best prospect and if he is, how long before he's ready to make the step up?

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I find this hard to believe. One things for sure, it certainly doesn't provide much encouragement to get in shape! Anyway, first hand experience is I'm much more injury prone when trying to bowl the same as always but carrying more weight.

Of course I'm not saying unfit players don't get injured equally as much, just explaining why better fitness and better athleticism doesn't lead to less injuries.

 

[thierry henry]

Of course I'm not saying unfit players don't get injured equally as much, just explaining why better fitness and better athleticism doesn't lead to less injuries.

And all I was saying is unfit players get injured equally as much precisely because their "breaking point" adjusts downwards as they become less fit and less athletic....but up until the above post you seemed to be disagreeing with that.

 

[Flem274*]

I've noticed big muscly ****s like Twatto, Tremlett and Bennett get injured all the time too but relatively slim blokes like Marto, Anderson and Wagner can bowl forever. Maybe fat ****s and muscly ****s get injured all the time because they have more weight to move around and their bodies have a greater surface area which means more places for an injury to happen.

 

[hendrix]

He has never been a test opener. When he was selected the cupboard was bare.

Nah I think they were genuinely looking at him as a long term prospect. They had the option of going for Rutherford, Latham or Raval and they gave Rutherford a go.

I imagine Raval will be next but a big season for Latham could see him getting the job.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

And all I was saying is unfit players get injured equally as much precisely because their "breaking point" adjusts downwards as they become less fit and less athletic....but up until the above post you seemed to be disagreeing with that.

yeah I suck at posting. That's not really what I was trying to say.

 

[straw man]

A fat bloke CAN'T strain his body as much because his fitness and athleticism prevent him moving his body fast enough to put any real strain on his body. His body will still have similar physical limits to a top athlete difference is he doesn't approach them.

Yes I think there are two different things here:

There are muscle strains, caused by some relation between force on and exerted by the muscles and their ability to cope with that. Massively dependent on fitness and flexibility. Could make an argument either way but could definitely see the fat guy exerting himself by pushing past his own fitness/flexibility limits and damaging himself as being a higher risk for a muscle tear than a fit fast bowler.

Then there are the fast bowling injuries you really worry about; stress fractures, bone/ligament damage etc. You'd assume the professional fast bowler and the fat guy have similar bone strength i.e. improved a little but not hugely by fitness, diet etc... and then it comes down to the stresses you're putting on those bones and joints. Obviously the fast bowler can put enough force and stress into those to damage them, whereas the fat guy just cannot.

 

[Hurricane]

Why are we chasing wide ones? There are only 2-3 overs left with the new ball then it is spin.

 

[Flem274*]

He has never been a test opener. When he was selected the cupboard was bare.

How is Raval going? Is he the next best prospect and if he is, how long before he's ready to make the step up?

Rutherford was selected on weight of runs too tbf. Has a very good average for Otago.

IMO Raval is reasonably sound for a kiwi opener. His run of tons was cut short one or two games ago though.

 

[thierry henry]

yeah I suck at posting

Been talking smack on internet forums for about 13 years and I've finally gotten someone to concede defeat and admit this

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Yes I think there are two different things here:

There are muscle strains, caused by some relation between force on and exerted by the muscles and their ability to cope with that. Massively dependent on fitness and flexibility. Could make an argument either way but could definitely see the fat guy exerting himself by pushing past his own fitness/flexibility limits and damaging himself as being a higher risk for a muscle tear than a fit fast bowler.

Then there are the fast bowling injuries you really worry about; stress fractures, bone/ligament damage etc. You'd assume the professional fast bowler and the fat guy have similar bone strength i.e. improved a little but not hugely by fitness, diet etc... and then it comes down to the stresses you're putting on those bones and joints. Obviously the fast bowler can put enough force and stress into those to damage them, whereas the fat guy just cannot.

yeah that

 

[thierry henry]

Yes I think there are two different things here:

There are muscle strains, caused by some relation between force on and exerted by the muscles and their ability to cope with that. Massively dependent on fitness and flexibility. Could make an argument either way but could definitely see the fat guy exerting himself by pushing past his own fitness/flexibility limits and damaging himself as being a higher risk for a muscle tear than a fit fast bowler.

Then there are the fast bowling injuries you really worry about; stress fractures, bone/ligament damage etc. You'd assume the professional fast bowler and the fat guy have similar bone strength i.e. improved a little but not hugely by fitness, diet etc... and then it comes down to the stresses you're putting on those bones and joints. Obviously the fast bowler can put enough force and stress into those to damage them, whereas the fat guy just cannot.

Good points. However wouldn't bones and ligaments be put under more stress if you're fatter? I just feel like it really has to go both ways across the board. I can see how saying "the faster someone bowls the more athletic they must be and therefore the less likely they are to get injured" is stupid. However surely it's equally stupid to say "if you want to avoid injury just become really fat and unfit because you'll be incapable of straining hard enough to hurt yourself".

 

[straw man]

I've noticed big muscly ****s like Twatto, Tremlett and Bennett get injured all the time too but relatively slim blokes like Marto, Anderson and Wagner can bowl forever. Maybe fat ****s and muscly ****s get injured all the time because they have more weight to move around and their bodies have a greater surface area which means more places for an injury to happen.

Don't know what the is for; I'm sure I've read something on this before. Though Anderson belongs more in the latter category; tanks. Tanks are strong, heavier and less flexible and that leads to greater strain being transfered from muscles to the ligaments and bones, compared to slimmer more elasticky bowler builds.

... Something along those lines anyway.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Don't know what the is for; I'm sure I've read something on this before. Though Anderson belongs more in the latter category; tanks. Tanks are strong, heavier and less flexible and that leads to greater strain being transfered from muscles to the ligaments and bones, compared to slimmer more elasticky bowler builds.

... Something along those lines anyway.

james anderson i think

 

[Flem274*]

Don't know what the is for; I'm sure I've read something on this before. Though Anderson belongs more in the latter category; tanks. Tanks are strong, heavier and less flexible and that leads to greater strain being transfered from muscles to the ligaments and bones, compared to slimmer more elasticky bowler builds.

... Something along those lines anyway.

Meant James Anderson. Meant to mention Steyn as well.

The is because my surface area explanation for the observation wasn't meant to be serious.

 

[straw man]

oh right, James Anderson, yes that makes sense

 

[BeeGee]

Nah I think they were genuinely looking at him as a long term prospect. They had the option of going for Rutherford, Latham or Raval and they gave Rutherford a go.

I imagine Raval will be next but a big season for Latham could see him getting the job.

Rutherford was selected on weight of runs too tbf. Has a very good average for Otago.

IMO Raval is reasonably sound for a kiwi opener. His run of tons was cut short one or two games ago though.

Don't get me wrong, I think Rutherford is a talented batsman, but I just don't think he's a test opener. Far too many flaws in his technique. Rutherford's flaws are less exposed at domestic level.

Mind you, I thought the exact same thing about Fulton, too. But Fulton has managed to adapt his game a little to suit the role. I see no development from Rutherford yet.

 

[straw man]

Good points. However wouldn't bones and ligaments be put under more stress if you're fatter? I just feel like it really has to go both ways across the board. I can see how saying "the faster someone bowls the more athletic they must be and therefore the less likely they are to get injured" is stupid. However surely it's equally stupid to say "if you want to avoid injury just become really fat and unfit because you'll be incapable of straining hard enough to hurt yourself".

I'm sure you're right there's that effect too - extra weight just adds extra stresses on your muscles and everything else, without adding anything to your bowling.

 

[Flem274*]

Fulton's experience helps him adapt imo. He's scored a lot of first class runs and knows how to work out a method to score and keep his head screwed on even when his technique is being exposed because he's had the experience of being ripped to shreds (first test stint) and building himself back up.

Rutherford hasn't had that, he's just blazed away through the covers all the way to test level and now it isn't working.