***Official*** West Indies in New Zealand 2013/14

[Hurricane]

jeez you guys are feeling bullish today. Personally i think that, even if we took this current sub-par windies xi, if we then began a three match test series in the west indies starting tomorrow and the only change wi made was to sub in narine, we would not be favourites in my mind.
.

awta

 

[WindieWeathers]

Neither Boult nor Southee played in the first test. When they played in the second test, the each took similar figures to Roach.

But aside from that, you can't just ignore what's happened since then. Boult's averaged around 25, and Southee 22 for the last 18 months. Southee took a 7-for in India getting guys like Pujara, Kohli etc. And then followed that up with 5-fers against Sri Lanka (Sangakkarra, Jayawardene, Samaraweera etc) and then England (Trott, Bell, Root, Prior etc). All away from home in tough bowling conditions.

If we're going back 18 months then Roach took 10fer vs Australia, rattled England in England when they were still number one, came back to the caribbean and gave NZ a torrid time and then had the best strike rate of ANY pacer in 2012!!...i know it's not a popularity contest but Roach has done his thing too.

 

[Prince EWS]

Do I count as a neutral?

Rampaul and Roach are a good opening pair - IMO a good example of how the world's bowling stocks have improved in the lower-ranked sides since ten years ago - but they are in no way as good as Southee and Boult.

 

[Flem274*]

Aren't we a bit far out to make predictions for the return series anyway? We haven't finished this series yet and the West Indies may well pull a Sri Lanka or a Hobart on us, and then we have India coming. 6 months is a long time in sport.

 

[WindieWeathers]

?

Bang v NZ
1st test New Zealand 469 and 287/7d;
2nd test New Zealand 437

India v WI
1st test West Indies 234 and 168
2nd test West Indies 182 and 187

The last year we were in BD and we got 500+ declared and also over 600 in the second test!!

Also you're welcome to show us the scores NZ and Australia put up in India recently aswell and we can compare!!.

 

[Prince EWS]

Aren't we a bit far out to make predictions for the return series anyway? We haven't finished this series yet and the West Indies may well pull a Sri Lanka or a Hobart on us, and then we have India coming. 6 months is a long time in sport.

I think it puts things into context a bit regardless. If New Zealand want to have a claim on being better than the West Indies they need to do better than just beating them at all, so discussion about the away series makes sense. Even if you weren't having an away series soon, there'd probably be a discussion about about what would happen in a theoretical one.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Aren't we a bit far out to make predictions for the return series anyway? We haven't finished this series yet and the West Indies may well pull a Sri Lanka or a Hobart on us, and then we have India coming. 6 months is a long time in sport.

We'll i'd put my house on it being 2-0 minimum to us!!..the conditions and our spinners will be too much to overcome imo..Southee and Boult are good but i doubt they'll be getting swing on our tracks.

 

[Zinzan]

Do I count as a neutral?

Rampaul and Roach are a good opening pair - IMO a good example of how the world's bowling stocks have improved in the lower-ranked sides since ten years ago - but they are in no way as good as Southee and Boult.

You do with that answer

 

[WindieWeathers]

Do I count as a neutral?

Rampaul and Roach are a good opening pair - IMO a good example of how the world's bowling stocks have improved in the lower-ranked sides since ten years ago - but they are in no way as good as Southee and Boult.

Who do you think is the best bowler of the four Prince? to me it's Roach hands down.

 

[Flem274*]

We'll i'd put my house on it being 2-0 minimum to us!!..the conditions and our spinners will be too much to overcome imo..Southee and Boult are good but i doubt they'll be getting swing on our tracks.

Pix of house? Could it fit on a ship? I'm not going to pass up the possibility of a free house.

 

[hendrix]

Honestly, I don't think Narine and Shillingford are any better than Shakib and Gazi.

 

[Zinzan]

The really disappointing for me is if it wasn't for that damn rain in Dunedin we would have had a rare chance of a 3-0 series scoreline which I can't remember NZ achieving against any side ever. We usually only play 2 test series against Bang & Zim.

 

[Prince EWS]

Who do you think is the best bowler of the four Prince? to me it's Roach hands down.

Southee. Especially since the ability to stay on the park is a big one for a fast bowler; it's pretty close otherwise. Southee, Boult and Roach are all of a pretty similar standard when fit IMO, but while Rampaul is good he's not quite in the class of the other three.

I think Rampaul's reputation has been protected by not playing of late. He's been left out because the selectors don't believe he's fit enough to get through the five days - he's not injured, he's just not meeting his fitness targets. Now I think we can all agree that leaving him out for Gabriel is ridiculous, but if he had been playing of late he wouldn't have been at his best and I reckon we'd have posts from you saying you were losing patience with him and that he should be replaced by Miguel Cummins.

 

[Prince EWS]

Honestly, I don't think Narine and Shillingford are any better than Shakib and Gazi.

True on not (not, IMO), the pitches in the West Indies offer a lot more assistance to spinners than the pitches in Bangladesh did; they were just flat as ****. NZ's better batsmen played on the last tour of the Caribbean - McCullum and Taylor averaged 32, Vettori averaged 15, Williamson averaged 12 and Watling averaged 7. It was only a two Test series and New Zealand's batting lineup is a bit better than it was then, but those established players are going to have to play a lot better than they did if New Zealand are going to win that series.

 

[Zinzan]

Southee. Especially since the ability to stay on the park is a big one for a fast bowler; it's pretty close otherwise. Southee, Boult and Roach are all of a pretty similar standard when fit IMO, but while Rampaul is good he's not quite in the class of the other three.

I think Rampaul's reputation has been protected by not playing of late. He's been left out because the selectors don't believe he's fit enough to get through the five days - he's not injured, he's just not meeting his fitness targets. Now I think we can all agree that leaving him out for Gabriel is ridiculous, but if he had been playing of late he wouldn't have been at his best and I reckon we'd have posts from you saying you were losing patience with him and that he should be replaced by Miguel Cummins.

^ I'd put my house (that would fit on a ship) on that hypothetical.

 

[hendrix]

True on not (not, IMO), the pitches in the West Indies offer a lot more assistance to spinners than the pitches in Bangladesh did; they were just flat as ****. NZ's better batsmen played on the last tour of the Caribbean - McCullum and Taylor averaged 32, Vettori averaged 15, Williamson averaged 12 and Watling averaged 7. It was only a two Test series and New Zealand's batting lineup is a bit better than it was then, but those established players are going to have to play a lot better than they did if New Zealand are going to win that series.

Yeah, this is true, and it's also true that Narine and Shillingford would have better pressure built up by their seam bowlers and it'd be overall a better attack.

I don't think it would be realistic to expect those averages in a return series though. Even with Williamson's inconsistencies, you'd bet on him to average more than 12, and Taylor to probably average more than 32. If I had a house I'd certainly bet on Watling to average more than 7.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah, this is true, and it's also true that Narine and Shillingford would have better pressure built up by their seam bowlers and it'd be overall a better attack.

I don't think it would be realistic to expect those averages in a return series though. Even with Williamson's inconsistencies, you'd bet on him to average more than 12, and Taylor to probably average more than 32. If I had a house I'd certainly bet on Watling to average more than 7.

Oh yeah absolutely; I definitely don't expect them all to get owned like that, but it shows that touring the West Indies is a very difficult proposition for New Zealand batsmen at the moment. Tricky, unfamiliar wickets, three good spinners getting lots of assistance and (hopefully) two good, fit opening bowlers. How they went in Bangladesh is really no comparison, even if you think their spinners are of a similar quality (Shillingford > Shakib > Narine > Gazi for mine). If the West Indies pick a proper team and Taylor averages 45+ there, it may be the series I officially put the better than Fleming stamp on his head.

 

[hendrix]

I understand WWeathers' indignation though. NZ is still ranked 2 places behind Windies and haven't put away Bangladesh like they managed to. I'm just seeing more development in NZ's players than the Windies'.

We'll see. I have a feeling that, like the current Ashes series, there's a bit more to look at than just wins/losses and most cricket followers certainly wouldn't be surprised if NZ did win that series.

 

[Jarquis]

Shillingford banned
Shillingford suspended from bowling in international cricket - Media Releases - News | ICC Cricket

 

[WindieWeathers]

Southee. Especially since the ability to stay on the park is a big one for a fast bowler; it's pretty close otherwise. Southee, Boult and Roach are all of a pretty similar standard when fit IMO, but while Rampaul is good he's not quite in the class of the other three.

I think Rampaul's reputation has been protected by not playing of late. He's been left out because the selectors don't believe he's fit enough to get through the five days - he's not injured, he's just not meeting his fitness targets. Now I think we can all agree that leaving him out for Gabriel is ridiculous, but if he had been playing of late he wouldn't have been at his best and I reckon we'd have posts from you saying you were losing patience with him and that he should be replaced by Miguel Cummins.

Didn't Southee just miss the Bangledash series through injury? it happens!!..the interesting thing is Southree averages 32 after 28 tests while Roach averages 27 after 23..Roach also has the far surperior strike rate of 51 compared to Southee's 62..so on a statistical level Roach beats him.