***Official*** New Zealand in Bangladesh & Sri Lanka 2013

[Flem274*]

Yeah, I reckon he'll keep his place. He only needs to average 30 and not drop too many sitters to ward of the competition. And his proven ability to minnow-bash in combination with his solid technique and his current batting position (that will generally allow him to avoid the new ball) should see him achieve that comfortably. As for where he'll rank, it's very tough to say at this stage. In terms of batsmanship, my guess is in between Parore and McCullum (so 2nd all time). In terms of keeping I'd say probably below the big 3, but still very well.

Will people call me high if I say Watling will be and has the better setup to be a better batsman than that downhill skier?

McCullum is the better gloveman and always will be though I think. The bloke was freakish.

 

[Prince EWS]

Will people call me high if I say Watling will be and has the better setup to be a better batsman than that downhill skier?

I certainly won't. McCullum did really well as opener once he gave up the gloves, but his batting output was always vastly over-rated when he was in the side as a wicket keeper. He averaged less than 30 with the gloves against other top eight sides. Obviously Watling hasn't done much against non-Zimbabwe/Bangladesh opposition either but his ton against Bangladesh was worth much more than McCullum's two tons against them - the first of which came in 2004 against a much weaker side when NZ were already well on top and went by an innings and change, and the second of which came in New Zealand where Bangladesh have always been completely dreadful.

Watling's still got a lot to prove to over-take McCullum's efforts while keeping wicket but I'd honestly be disappointed if I didn't rate him New Zealand's best batting wicket keeper by the time he retired. No pressure.

 

[Prince EWS]

He's better than Fleming already

I don't really agree with this. If Taylor retired now he'd have a six year career; and if you look at this six year period at the end of Fleming's career then he clearly out-did what Ross has during the same length of time. I think it's fair to say that Taylor is likely to surpass Fleming as he's not going to retire any time soon, but it'd be unfair to mark Fleming down for playing extra cricket if Taylor retired now.

 

[Bahnz]

He's better than Fleming already, and there will be a very clear gap when they finish their careers.

Fleming achieved highs Taylor hasn't yet, but Fleming made a career out of half centuries and doing half the work. Fleming could, should have averaged 50, but his mind let him down. Taylor is more up and down, but when he gets in he finishes the job. He has only needs two more ton to pass Fleming in less than half of Fleming's tests, despite making his debut at a similar age and less complete as a batsman.

I don't agree with this. While he's not as bad as Fleming, Taylor still has a frustratingly mediocre ratio of 50's to hundreds (2.5:1). He also is guilty of the sin of not making daddy-hundreds. The fact that he made his highest score as a test batsman at the age of 24 is really disappointing. Given how good he is, and the pitches that he's had the advantage of batting on, he really should've made a double by now.

 

[Bahnz]

Will people call me high if I say Watling will be and has the better setup to be a better batsman than that downhill skier?

McCullum is the better gloveman and always will be though I think. The bloke was freakish.

Technique and temperament wise, definitely. There's still the outstanding question of whether he's just naturally good enough though. We'll know within a year I reckon.

 

[Bahnz]

On Donnelly: while I pick him as well, I can't help but look at him in the same light as Barry Richards, and apply the Mark Waugh Case that was used in another thread recently. All three were ***y as **** and gunned it at first, but then two stopped while Waugh went on to disappoint (relatively) after his amazing start. Waugh always looked the best in the world, then he got out for 40.

Mark Waugh would stroll into the NZ ATG side of couse, but I hope the argument I'm trying to make is clear. I can't help but be dubious of the small sample size. I don't think his is a Cowie or a Dempster situation either.

Obviously none of us have ever seen him play, but the way people spoke about Donnelly lends me to believe he was freakishly good in terms of New Zealand batsmen. Wisden rated him the best lefty in the world, and I remember reading that people thought in terms of natural talent there were few besides the Don who were better than him.

 

[Mike5181]

I certainly won't. McCullum did really well as opener once he gave up the gloves, but his batting output was always vastly over-rated when he was in the side as a wicket keeper. He averaged less than 30 with the gloves against other top eight sides. Obviously Watling hasn't done much against non-Zimbabwe/Bangladesh opposition either but his ton against Bangladesh was worth much more than McCullum's two tons against them - the first of which came in 2004 against a much weaker side when NZ were already well on top and went by an innings and change, and the second of which came in New Zealand where Bangladesh have always been completely dreadful.

Watling's still got a lot to prove to over-take McCullum's efforts while keeping wicket but I'd honestly be disappointed if I didn't rate him New Zealand's best batting wicket keeper by the time he retired. No pressure.

Watling's ton was on an absolute road, in a game with absolutely no chance of a result. Boult scoring 50 is evidence of that. I rate Watling, but it's still minnow-bashing.

 

[Prince EWS]

Watling's ton was on an absolute road, in a game with absolutely no chance of a result. Boult scoring 50 is evidence of that. I rate Watling, but it's still minnow-bashing.

Haha, yeah. It was a worth a bit more than McCullum's tons against Bangladesh but not that much more. It definitely seems weird to put McCullum down for minnow-bashing when comparing him to Watling, but I'm not as much comparing him to Watling as I am setting the bar for Watling.

Watling's obviously not even close to have proven what McCullum did with the bat as a keeper yet, minnow-bashing or not. I just don't think it's that high a bar; he can definitely get there IMO.

 

[hendrix]

Haha, yeah. It was a worth a bit more than McCullum's tons against Bangladesh but not that much more.

hang on here.

Yes it was a road and it took incompetence to get out, but there's a very good chance we would've lost that test had Watling not scored that century.

 

[Immenso]

Watling was an inch away from bagging a pair.

It's a funny old game ........

 

[Prince EWS]

hang on here.

Yes it was a road and it took incompetence to get out, but there's a very good chance we would've lost that test had Watling not scored that century.

.... and that's why it was worth more.

Fighting a war on two fronts here.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I don't agree with this. While he's not as bad as Fleming, Taylor still has a frustratingly mediocre ratio of 50's to hundreds (2.5:1). He also is guilty of the sin of not making daddy-hundreds. The fact that he made his highest score as a test batsman at the age of 24 is really disappointing. Given how good he is, and the pitches that he's had the advantage of batting on, he really should've made a double by now.

I think he would have made a double in this match:

Only Test: New Zealand v Zimbabwe at Napier, Jan 26-28, 2012 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

If it hadn't have been for pulling up lame. He looked in excellent touch in that innings - chanceless, as I recall.

 

[hendrix]

I think he would have made a double in this match:

Only Test: New Zealand v Zimbabwe at Napier, Jan 26-28, 2012 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

dat 5 man bowling attack + Williamson.

 

[RxGM]

I think he would have made a double in this match:

Only Test: New Zealand v Zimbabwe at Napier, Jan 26-28, 2012 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

If it hadn't have been for pulling up lame. He looked in excellent touch in that innings - chanceless, as I recall.

I think that is his issue against getting big tonnes he is relatvely injury prone, and appears to get tired and thus prone to making mistakes - his innings in columbo is the only time he has batted more than 6 hours in FC cricket - and also with the exception of his debut ton, all his test centuries have been rapid,

 

[Hurricane]

He could have made a double against Aussie in Hamilton. He got to 120 odd and then Jeets came out to bat at number 8 and he knew he had to start slogging and he got out.

 

[Flametree]

Does anyone know what the NZ team are doing for this week? 7 days is a long time between matches, particularly in somewhere that isn't noted for its tourist attractions.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Does anyone know what the NZ team are doing for this week?

Just a guess, but possibly taking time out to earn the right to be aggressive.

 

[Days of Grace]

I also found the scheduling weird. Not to mention that I was looking forward to watching some cricket this weekend, so the whole deal leaves me feeling a bit pissed off.

I mean, at least play a warm-up match to get used to conditions a bit more. God knows local Bangladeshi cricket needs more matches against international teams.

The sliver lining might be Southee being fit for the second test.

 

[Kippax]

"Why are they not playing another Test this week through December 25th? Stupid ****ing December 25th!" - Bangladesh cricket forums.

 

[Flem274*]

I also found the scheduling weird. Not to mention that I was looking forward to watching some cricket this weekend, so the whole deal leaves me feeling a bit pissed off.

I mean, at least play a warm-up match to get used to conditions a bit more. God knows local Bangladeshi cricket needs more matches against international teams.

The sliver lining might be Southee being fit for the second test.

It's Eid bro, and they're playing in a country where not only is the holiday state approved like Christmas is here, their country is far more into Islam than we are into Christianity.

We were never a show in hell of getting a game of any sort unless the local Richard Dawkins Foundation branch has a cricket team.