*Official* Fourth Test at Chester-le-Street

[wpdavid]

KP & Ding Dong now both been in four winning Ashes series.

Can't be too many more English players who've won more...?

Botham won 5 - 1977, 1978/79, 1981, 1985 and 1986/7

Boycott won 4 as well - 1970/71, 1977, 1978/79 and 1981

And Gower won 4 - 1978/79, 1981, 1985 and 1986/7

That's it, you'd think, unless there's someone pre-WW1

 

[Howe_zat]

I'm thinking players like Botham, Gower and Gooch would have won in all of 1977, 1977/78, 1981, 1985 and 1986/87. (Turns out it was actually just Botham that played all of these)


Edit: Having a look the 19th century players have this sewn up because of how many series they played back then. Billy Barnes played 21 Tests in his career and he won the ashes 7 times from 1882-90.

Edit again: Barnes is tied with Bobby Peel, Arthur Shrewsbury and Walter Read for the record seven wins. All 1880s players

z

 

[grecian]

z

Meh, no-one can be bothered to read newbies posts.

 

[wpdavid]

Meh, no-one can be bothered to read newbies posts.

With apologies to Howezat, obvs.

That's what comes of taking a brief flick through recent posts after a week in France. Mainly to see our commentary on Broad's carnage on Day 4.

 

[the big bambino]

Im gonna have to read back now!.

Oz have bowled well but that doesn't mean you can't say England have batted badly, they have, i really do believe England as a team have only been in 3rd gear this series, compare England to the England of 2 years ago, thats the standard, we see it in patches here and there now but no-where near as consistant as we were back then, still the same players pretty much.

Whats won England this series is 2 outstanding performers in Bell and Swann and a few random outstanding performances from other players, the team really hasn't gotton out of 3rd gear but thankfully it hasn't mattered, no way is this Englands level, theres plenty more in the bank, hopefully we'll see it down under again.

Flame away.

Fine. The Eng of 2 yrs ago were playing well above themselves. What you are seeing now is them playing at about their normal ability adjusted for some fine bowling. I mean its like saying Clarke is only going at about 40% bcos he normally averages 100 in a calender year. Which is, like the 3rd gear excuse posited for England's failure, ridiculous.

 

[wpdavid]

Fine. The Eng of 2 yrs ago were playing well above themselves. What you are seeing now is them playing at about their normal ability adjusted for some fine bowling. I mean its like saying Clarke is only going at about 40% bcos he normally averages 100 in a calender year. Which is, like the 3rd gear excuse posited for England's failure, ridiculous.

And that's the key question, if we're looking ahead to the return leg. Are Aus in big trouble because England have won 3 out of 4 despite four of their big names generally misfiring? Or are England in trouble if Aus manage to post some scores and even win the toss occasionally because their batting simply isn't good enough? Being one of lif'e's pessimists, I tend to towards the latter view because what we've seen this series is only part of a longer trend and not at all a one-off. I'm also worried about Anderson's bowling for most of the series, which doesn't inspire confidence for the next few years.

All that being said, you don't know who's going to step up a level. I never saw Bell performing this well before the series, any more than I thought Cook would perform as he did 3 years ago.

 

[Adders]

Fine. The Eng of 2 yrs ago were playing well above themselves. What you are seeing now is them playing at about their normal ability adjusted for some fine bowling. I mean its like saying Clarke is only going at about 40% bcos he normally averages 100 in a calender year. Which is, like the 3rd gear excuse posited for England's failure, ridiculous.

England fans are not setting our standards by performances 2 years ago, we are comparing our batsmans performance in this series to what we have seen over their careers If you think Cook, Trott, Prior and even KP have performed at their expected level and capabilities then you have got rocks in your head mate.

I don't expect Cook to score 700+ runs @ 127 average every Ashes series..........but I don't think I'm being an arrogant, ****y prick for expecting him to average more than ****ing 27 for the series either.

3rd gear is not a term I would use (but Cooky Monster has every right to as I guess it amounts to the same thing) But I do believe our batsmen have underperformed as a unit even accounting for the very good bowling they have faced.......80% is about right IMO.

 

[benchmark00]

Worst logic. Cook averages 27 for the series because he's faced good bowling, not because he's played particularly poorly every innings.

Gash stuff.

 

[the big bambino]

England fans are not setting our standards by performances 2 years ago, we are comparing our batsmans performance in this series to what we have seen over their careers If you think Cook, Trott, Prior and even KP have performed at their expected level and capabilities then you have got rocks in your head mate.

I don't expect Cook to score 700+ runs @ 127 average every Ashes series..........but I don't think I'm being an arrogant, ****y prick for expecting him to average more than ****ing 27 for the series either.

3rd gear is not a term I would use (but Cooky Monster has every right to as I guess it amounts to the same thing) But I do believe our batsmen have underperformed as a unit even accounting for the very good bowling they have faced.......80% is about right IMO.

"Compare the England to the England of 2 years ago. That's the standard" That is the quote I was responding to and I've reasonably taken that to mean the last ashes. So it seems some fans are comparing them to that standard, not their overall careers.

The fans who make the claim that Eng's bats have underperformed compared to their overall careers have a point as far as it goes. But so does Clarke as I mentioned in the post you responded to but no one is suggesting he is going less than full tilt and the bowlers deserve credit for containing him (in the main). The fact an individual batsmen has a poor series can be down to a number of reasons but I'd place good bowling and fielding as most likely cause. However when a team under performs then I think you have to be suspicious about the whole 3rd gear argument. It is most likely those planning our bowling strategies have studied your batsmen and worked them out. Whereas It is unlikely that most your batsmen plus Prior are out of form bcos they are simultaneously having a period. Notice the fielding settings and bowling lines to Cook and Trott. It suggests good planning well executed. Your boys have been given something to think about and they'd be mugs to think that all they have to do is wait for their luck to turn.

 

[Adders]

Worst logic. Cook averages 27 for the series because he's faced good bowling, not because he's played particularly poorly every innings.

Gash stuff.

That's got to be the biggest troll ever......have you even watched this series??? I'm not arguing that the bowling hasn't been good but for the most part Cook has looked so out of sorts he should have been batting No11. He's managed to grind out a couple of 50's but hasn't ever once looked comfortable or more than 1 ball away from getting out. ****ed if I'm giving all the credit for that to the bowlers.

You reckon my logic is gash???? We'll heres a couple of fatal flaws in yours fella.....

- Do the Aussies swap their 4 bowlers when Bell comes onto bat?? Or do they just forget what they are doing?? Perhaps you think Ian Bell is in fact a better batsman than Cook, Trott and KP?? Cos how the **** could it possibly be that Ian Bell is in the form of his life while the others are struggling??

- So when batsmen fail all credit goes to the bowler, it is never the batsman's failings?? You must have watched an inspired bit of bowling at Lords then mate.....personally I witnessed one of the worst 5fers ever taken in Test cricket. Because surely to say anything other than Swann ripped you apart with some incredible, unplayable bowling would be incredibly ****y and disrespectful.

"Worst Logic", "Gash stuff"..........was gonna respond in kind but nah, always a sure sign when a poster uses that sort of rhetoric that they haven't got much to bring to the table.

 

[benchmark00]

I would honestly say I know at least 733 bigger troll posts.

 

[Adders]

I would honestly say I know at least 733 bigger troll posts.

Another intelligent contribution.

I'm trying to debate a point and doing so without insulting you. Disagree with me, state your case....you never know if you are that sure you're right you might even convince me......won't do that by insulting my logic and calling my posts gash.

See the Big Bambino's post.....that's how it's done mate.

 

[benchmark00]

lol.

 

[Adders]

"Compare the England to the England of 2 years ago. That's the standard" That is the quote I was responding to and I've reasonably taken that to mean the last ashes. So it seems some fans are comparing them to that standard, not their overall careers.

I haven't seen that comment, but fair call.......I certainly don't disagree that we played above ourselves 2 years ago. Two ways of reading that though, is the poster saying that is our level and if we don't match it we are underperforming or is he saying that is the standard we have set for ourselves and what we should be aspiring to get back to?? Agree with the second.

But so does Clarke as I mentioned in the post you responded to but no one is suggesting he is going less than full tilt and the bowlers deserve credit for containing him (in the main)

Hmmmm, Clarke averages nearly 50 for the series and has 180 to his name, he has also been on the wrong end of 2 of the best deliveries bowled in the series. He hasn't been at his ridiculous best, but it would be hard to argue he is out of form as well. Apart from those 2 Jaffas I mentioned though I'm not paying all the credit to our bowlers for keeping him quiet.

 

[Adders]

lol.

Apology accepted.

 

[benchmark00]

Listen shags, I never insulted you personally, just commented that your post was absolutely ****ing horrendous (which it is). It is, of course, not atypical of your MO though it must be said.


Your post simply just isn't worth replying to because its something you'd find on the English version of the Foxsports.com.au comments section. But because you seem he'll bent on getting a response from me, I will make your day by doing so:

That's got to be the biggest troll ever......have you even watched this series??? I'm not arguing that the bowling hasn't been good but for the most part Cook has looked so out of sorts he should have been batting No11. He's managed to grind out a couple of 50's but hasn't ever once looked comfortable or more than 1 ball away from getting out. ****ed if I'm giving all the credit for that to the bowlers.

Honestly I can't believe I'm going to address this, but if you haven't noticed a plan Australia have been working on to get Cook out, and not only working but executing it masterfully, then you are not one eyed as I thought and I apologise. You are in fact no eyed. If Australia had worked and executed that same plan in the last Ashes Cook would have never have been as prolific as he was. Just because he gets found out in a series doesn't mean he's all of a sudden in horrible form. And because I can read your mind (hardly a difficult task I admit) I'm going to say you're about to type "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE TIMES COOK GOT OUT PLAYING AWAY FROM HIS BODY". Well I'm glad you asked, because maybe, just maybe, players sweat on things in their zone, and when it doesn't happen for so long due to disciplined bowling maybe, JUST MAYBE, they get too eager when they see a ball that's hittable.

Cook will HAVE to work on this, and he will work on it. And because he's a fine player more than likely he will overcome this. But it isn't because he's so out of form that he's getting out so much.

- Do the Aussies swap their 4 bowlers when Bell comes onto bat?? Or do they just forget what they are doing?? Perhaps you think Ian Bell is in fact a better batsman than Cook, Trott and KP?? Cos how the **** could it possibly be that Ian Bell is in the form of his life while the others are struggling??

This, impressively enough, is the worst part of your post. I struggle to see what your point is here whatsoever. Bell has played wonderfully well. The mere fact that Australia look borderline planless against Bell is testament to how well he has played because nothing the Australians have thrown at him have worked.

Now I have no idea what part of your brain thinks that all of a sudden because Bell makes runs it means everyone else is out of form but it is just crazy.

- So when batsmen fail all credit goes to the bowler, it is never the batsman's failings?? You must have watched an inspired bit of bowling at Lords then mate.....personally I witnessed one of the worst 5fers ever taken in Test cricket. Because surely to say anything other than Swann ripped you apart with some incredible, unplayable bowling would be incredibly ****y and disrespectful.

And nope, not gonna waste my time responding to this war mongering stuff.

"Worst Logic", "Gash stuff"..........was gonna respond in kind but nah, always a sure sign when a poster uses that sort of rhetoric that they haven't got much to bring to the table.

I can assure you sport, if this was a BBQ I'd be bringing the meat and you'd be bringing a small coleslaw to the table.

 

[Adders]

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Get a room ladies.

 

[fredfertang]

Bell has always been a good player, its just that he used to have a problem between his ears of the Hick/Merv variety - he seems to have solved that though, and I suspect he'll do just as well in Aus as he has here.

As for Cook I agree with benchy - he's got some work to do, but he'll do it - the man's a chorister ffs

 

[Adders]

As for Cook I agree with benchy - he's got some work to do, but he'll do it - the man's a chorister ffs

Of course he'll do it, and when he does we might get out of 3rd gear.