Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Don't forget Lance Dry.
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New Zealand All Time Team - Open Voting
- Thread starter kyear2
- Start date
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
FUUUU. Was actually going to vote for Lance Dry when the spinner/final bowler voting was done; now you've spoiled my effect.
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Cowie and Bond clearly home and hosed, as they should be, but I'll add my votes just so I've posted here and don't forget about the thread
kyear2
International Coach
Sorry for the delay guys. Long day at work.
Cowie and Bond in that order won this one hands down. Team thus far
01. Glenn Turner
02. Stewie Dempster
03.
04. Martin Crowe
05.
06.
07.
08. Richard Hadle
09.
10. Shane Bond
11. Jack Cowie
Now for the middle order, I will presume Crowe is a certainty here, but who will surrond him at four and five.
Kindly choose any two of the following or any of your own choosing.
Nathan Astle | Bev Congdon | Martin Donnelly | Stephen Fleming | Andrew Jones | Craig McMillan | John F Reid | John R Reid | Bert Sutcliffe
While we are at it lets complete the middle order with an the All Rounder position. As before Kindly choose any one of the following.
Chris Cairns | Jacob Oram | John R Reid | Bruce Taylor
Cowie and Bond in that order won this one hands down. Team thus far
01. Glenn Turner
02. Stewie Dempster
03.
04. Martin Crowe
05.
06.
07.
08. Richard Hadle
09.
10. Shane Bond
11. Jack Cowie
Now for the middle order, I will presume Crowe is a certainty here, but who will surrond him at four and five.
Kindly choose any two of the following or any of your own choosing.
Nathan Astle | Bev Congdon | Martin Donnelly | Stephen Fleming | Andrew Jones | Craig McMillan | John F Reid | John R Reid | Bert Sutcliffe
While we are at it lets complete the middle order with an the All Rounder position. As before Kindly choose any one of the following.
Chris Cairns | Jacob Oram | John R Reid | Bruce Taylor
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HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
And there I was about to vote for Bob Blair and Iain O'Brien. Damn you.
Bert Sutcliffe and Martin Donnelly
And for the All-Rounder, John R Reid
Though you'd better not be forcing us to pick a spinner at #9. If so, then I'll swap Reid for Cairns.
Bert Sutcliffe and Martin Donnelly
And for the All-Rounder, John R Reid
Though you'd better not be forcing us to pick a spinner at #9. If so, then I'll swap Reid for Cairns.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
Disappointed at the lack of Richardson love for the opener's spot. I really don't like the idea of selecting guys like dempster and donnelly because they played jack all test matches. Not their fault, but we'll just never know how good they really were.
Jones and Astle at 5 and 6. Cairns at 8 pushing Hadlee back to 9. Four pronged pace with Crowe as the fill bowler.
By the way, there isn't a compulsory spinner spot in this, is there? We don't have any worthy tbh. Vettori's record is acceptable but he never did much in spin-friendly conditions, making it pretty pointless to remove a seamer for him, especially with a gun like Cairns.
Jones and Astle at 5 and 6. Cairns at 8 pushing Hadlee back to 9. Four pronged pace with Crowe as the fill bowler.
By the way, there isn't a compulsory spinner spot in this, is there? We don't have any worthy tbh. Vettori's record is acceptable but he never did much in spin-friendly conditions, making it pretty pointless to remove a seamer for him, especially with a gun like Cairns.
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wellAlbidarned
International Coach
andre adams ftw
HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Barry Richards and Graeme Pollock also worth ignoring because of a lack of Test matches?
Dempster and Donnelly were a class apart from other NZ cricketers of their day. Both being named one of Wisden's Cricketers of the Year in the 30s and 40s respective. Dempster being as the finest player of spin of his generation (though, granted, I can't remember who said this and whether it's credible or not) but to dismiss them out of hand and Wisden crediting Donnelly as the finest left hander in the game at the time of them naming him as a Cricketer of the Year.
Plus, Stewie Dempster is on the Petone Walk of Fame (along with a certain I. O'Brien), so that's gotta count for something.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
Yep for Richards. Pollock probably just scrapes in.
For me, personally, I don't know that so refuse to vote them in based on a puddle of test matches and some superlative eyewitness accounts. They probably were awesome but that doesn't mean they have to qualify for these sorts of lists, the sample size means it's not possibly to judge fairly. Those sorts of players stand in their own kind of group and shouldn't be compared to full test careers.
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HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
But even had they played "full careers", how many games would they have played?
Donnelly's career was punctuated by the 2nd world war and NZ hardly played any Test matches back then. Bert Sutcliffe had an 18 year career featuring 42 Tests. Walter Hadlee, 11 Tests in as many years.
Richardson himself only played 38 Tests over a paltry 4 years.
I just don't think that a NZ all-time team can dismiss some of the players who were considered fantastic players at a time when few tests were played.
Donnelly's career was punctuated by the 2nd world war and NZ hardly played any Test matches back then. Bert Sutcliffe had an 18 year career featuring 42 Tests. Walter Hadlee, 11 Tests in as many years.
Richardson himself only played 38 Tests over a paltry 4 years.
I just don't think that a NZ all-time team can dismiss some of the players who were considered fantastic players at a time when few tests were played.
Flem274*
123/5
Cricinfo picking McMillan for the shortlist over Ross Taylor is absolute bull****.
If we were to play against one of the subcontinent sides in their own conditions I would pick six pure batsmen and make a horses for courses selection by picking Stephen Fleming at six. He has a case for being our finest player of spin. Only Warne consistently succeeded against him and Fleming still had his number on a few occassions.
Playing Fleming against Murali is an absolute must imo.
Also Darlingface, in a world where we're resurrecting people from the dead to play cricket I'm sure we can make Bond invincible, making Bruce Taylor unnecessary.
This.
If we were to play against one of the subcontinent sides in their own conditions I would pick six pure batsmen and make a horses for courses selection by picking Stephen Fleming at six. He has a case for being our finest player of spin. Only Warne consistently succeeded against him and Fleming still had his number on a few occassions.
Playing Fleming against Murali is an absolute must imo.
Also Darlingface, in a world where we're resurrecting people from the dead to play cricket I'm sure we can make Bond invincible, making Bruce Taylor unnecessary.
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Mike5181
International Captain
Cricinfo's list was done years ago though, like 2009 or something. He's clearly ahead of him now.
Anyone else think Fleming's a tad underrated on here? Sure he had a dreadful conversion rate, but he played in a time with some great fast bowlers, and two of the greatest spin bowlers of all-time. His record against South Africa, Pakistan and particularly against Murali have to count for something. Averages 47 at number three as well.
Anyone else think Fleming's a tad underrated on here? Sure he had a dreadful conversion rate, but he played in a time with some great fast bowlers, and two of the greatest spin bowlers of all-time. His record against South Africa, Pakistan and particularly against Murali have to count for something. Averages 47 at number three as well.
Flem274*
123/5
Despite his average of 47 at number three, I think Fleming's statistics suffer from three things:
1) Converting 50s into 100s
2) He's a much better batsman against spin than pace
3) He batted too high for the majority of his career
He has two hundreds and an average just under 34 in over 50 home tests. In contrast, he averages 65 on the subcontinent with 3 very big hundreds in 18 tests.
1) Converting 50s into 100s
2) He's a much better batsman against spin than pace
3) He batted too high for the majority of his career
He has two hundreds and an average just under 34 in over 50 home tests. In contrast, he averages 65 on the subcontinent with 3 very big hundreds in 18 tests.
Flem274*
123/5
Having a play with the stats right now actually and in the last five years of his career he forged a damn good record.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
He scored over half of his hundreds in his last 38 tests at 47. Prior to that he had four tons in 73 tests, which is dire.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
He scored over half of his hundreds in his last 38 tests at 47. Prior to that he had four tons in 73 tests, which is dire.
