New Zealand All Time Team - Open Voting

[Bahnz]

Without checking, you're probably right that Vettori's later numbers with the bat are better than Cairns'. But I agree with everyone here selecting Cairns instead.

In general both started as bowlers and their bowling effectiveness decreased as their batting improved. However I think there was more of an overlap of good batting and good bowling for Cairns (around what, 1999-2001?) than for Vettori, who's never had a period where he's been a particularly good bowler and batsman at the same time. So Cairns at his peak >> Vettori at his peak, and I guess for an All-Time team you assume the players are at their peak.

Yeah agree with this sentiment. Vettori basically peaked as an attacking bowler in 2000, before his back injury forced him to remodel his action. After that, he never really turned the ball as much and bowled a much flatter trajectory. Since then, he's averaged over 42 (exc. zimbang).

Cairns was basically an awesome batsman from New Zealand's 1998 series v India onwards, but was still handy as early as the mid 1990's. Beginning with Pakistan's one-off test v NZ in 1995, Cairns averaged nearly 37 with the bat and 27 with the ball.

 

[Flem274*]

Originally had Parore inked in but you guys have convinced me on Brendon McCullum.

Chris Cairns is my pick for the final bowling spot. I think it was Zinzan in the Cairns v Flintoff thread who posted that once he truly arrived at test level at around 1997 or so he averaged 42 with the bat and 26 with the ball.

Daniel Vettori's numbers are as misleading as Imran Khan's. It would be cheating to select Vettori the batsman of the last eight years and Vettori the bowler of his first five years. Sure you'd get an allrounder who averages 40 with the bat and I can't remember what with the ball, but it never happened in real life. You have to pick one or the other and imo neither version does enough to warrant inclusion ahead of Cairns, Bruce Taylor or another specialist batsman/bowler when you have J.R. Reid in the side.

My final eleven is:

Glenn Turner
Stewie Dempster
Bert Sutcliffe
Martin Crowe (c)
Martin Donnelly
John R. Reid (5)
Chris Cairns (4)
Brendon McCullum (wk)
Richard Hadlee (1)
Shane Bond (3)
Jack Cowie (2)

When this winds down an interesting question is which side would win: NZ from the beginning to 1979 or NZ 1980-2013?

Oldies

Dempster
Turner
Sutcliffe
Donnelly
Congdon
J.R. Reid
B. Taylor
Wadsworth
Cameron
Cowie
Collinge

Newbies

Wright
Richardson
J.F. Reid
Crowe
Fleming
R. Taylor
Cairns
McCullum
Hadlee
Nash
Bond

Personally I think the oldies need some extra batting to push Taylor to eight, but I can't decide who to add.

 

[fredfertang]

McCullum for keeper

As for the last bowling slot I do think you have to have a whirlyman in these teams, and the late Hedley Howarth was one of the best I've seen, much better than his stats suggest

 

[watson]

McCullum for keeper

As for the last bowling slot I do think you have to have a whirlyman in these teams, and the late Hedley Howarth was one of the best I've seen, much better than his stats suggest

AWTA - McCullum and Howarth

HowSTAT! Player Bowling Analysis

 

[kyear2]

This one also seems pretty clear cut, but will let it run it's course a bit longer.

 

[Flametree]

Yeah, I'm paddling upstream here but I'll go with Smith I for keeper and Vettori for the last bowling spot. Not sure where this idea that Reid bowled spin comes from - don't suppose there are any oldtimers on here who've actually seen him bowl? Cricinfo describe his bowling as :

a bowler of what became known as right-arm bursters which ranged from modest off-cutters to snarling bouncers.

So I imagine he was generally a little quicker than Astle, bowling cutters mostly, with the occasional spell of genuine medium-fast...

 

[Flametree]

Oldies

Dempster
Turner
Sutcliffe
Donnelly
Congdon
J.R. Reid
B. Taylor
Wadsworth
Cameron
Cowie
Collinge

snip..

Personally I think the oldies need some extra batting to push Taylor to eight, but I can't decide who to add.

Giff Vivian. Even bowled half-decent spin I think...

 

[Days of Grace]

The bowling of the best team is all right arm fast to medium over the wicket. No one is concerned about the lack of variety?

 

[Red]

 

[wellAlbidarned]

The bowling of the best team is all right arm fast to medium over the wicket. No one is concerned about the lack of variety?

No because they're our best bowlers.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, besides there's plenty of difference in there. Hadlee with his outswingers and relentless accuracy, Bond with his inswing and pace, Cairns with his extra height and the ever present threat of his slower ball. The attack doesn't lack variety just because all the bowlers are right-armers. No-one criticises South Africa's bowling attack for being samey, despite the fact that Steyn, Philander, Morkel and Kallis are all right arm quicks.

 

[kyear2]

completed XI

01. Glenn Turner
02. Stewie Dempster
03. Bert Sutcliffe
04. Martin Crowe
05. Martin Donnelly
06. John R. Reid
07. Brendon Mccullum
08. Chris Cairns
09. Richard Hadlee
10. Shane Bond
11. Jack Cowie

12. Stephen Fleming
13. Hedley Howarth

 

[kyear2]

Cricketweb Australia All Time XI
Victor Trumper
Arthur Morris
Sir Donald Bradman *
Greg Chappell
Allan Border
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist +
Shane Warne
Denis Lille
Bill O'Reilly
Glenn McGrath

Ricky Ponting
Allan Davidson

Cricketweb West Indies All Time XI
Gordon Greenidge
Sir Conrad Hunte
George Headley *
Sir I.V.A. Richards
Brian Lara
Sir Garfield Sobers
Sir Clyde Walcott +
Malcolm Marshall
Michael Holding
Curtly Ambrose
Joel Garner

Frank Worrell
Lance Gibbs

Cricketweb England All Time XI
Sir Jack Hobbs
Sir Len Hutton *
Wally Hammond
Ken Barrington
Denis Compton
Sir Ian Botham
Allan Knott +
Jim Laker
Harold Larwood
Fred Trueman
Syd Barnes

Hedley Verity
Kevin Pietersen

Cricketweb South Africa All Time XI
Barry Richards
Graeme Smith *
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
Aubrey Faulkner
Mike Procter
John Waite +
Dale Steyn
Hugh Tayfield
Allan Donald

Shaun Pollock
Herbie Taylor

Cricketweb Pakistan All Time XI
Hanif Mohammad
Saeed Anwar
Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Inzamam-ul-Haq
Mushtaq Mohammad
Imran Khan *
Rashid Latif +
Wasim Akram
Fazal Mahmood
Waqar Younis

Mohammad Yousuf
Saqlain Mushtaq

Cricketweb India All Time XI
Sunil Gavaskar
Vijay Merchant
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer
Kapil Dev
Anil Kumble
Javagal Srinath
Erapalli Prasanna

Mohammad Azharuddin
Amar Singh

Cricketweb Sri Lankan All Time XI
Marvan Atapattu
Sanath Jayasuriya
Kumar Sangakkara
Aravinda de Silva
Mahela Jayawardene *
Thilan Samaraweera
Prasanna Jayawardene +
Chaminda Vaas
Lasith Malinga
Muttiah Muralitharan
Rangana Herath

Arjuna Ranatunga
Ashantha de Mel

Cricketweb New Zealand All Time XI
Glenn Turner
Stewie Dempster
Bert Sutcliffe
Martin Crowe
Martin Donnelley
Brendon McCullum
John R. Reid
Chris Cairns
Richard Hadlee
Shane Bond
Jack Cowie

Stephen Fleming
Hedley Howarth

 

[Coronis]

I demand Zimbabwe. Great teams there.

 

[watson]

completed XI

01. Glenn Turner
02. Stewie Dempster
03. Bert Sutcliffe
04. Martin Crowe
05. Martin Donnelly
06. John R. Reid
07. Brendon Mccullum
08. Chris Cairns
09. Richard Hadlee
10. Shane Bond
11. Jack Cowie

12. Stephen Fleming
13. Hedley Howarth

That team is no push over and certainly capable of a 1980 style home-ground upset.

 

[Mike5181]

I think we did pretty well there.

Picking Taylor and Williamson to push for selection out of the current lot.

 

[kyear2]

Glad most are happy with it.

 

[watson]

Who's the skipper?

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Who's the skipper?

Brendon Mccullum, for his aggressiveness

 

[Prince EWS]

I demand Zimbabwe. Great teams there.

I'll run the Zimbabwe voting if you want. When should we start? Right away?