**Official** New Zealand in West Indies

[Raghav]

Vettori did a good job when he toured to India last time in 2010.. He got some big wickets (Dravid, tendulka, laxman) in that series. He was not poor with the bat either. He is in the team just because NZ don't have any-other half-good spinner who has got good control on the ball. Vettori at-least is better for not giving easy runs!

Regarding Brownlie, I see he is a good compact player to come in the middle order, he needs to be given some time to settle into the position and he is just one knock away.. He should do well in the India tour on those subcontinental tracks.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yeah Samuels bowls the fastest off breaks in the history of cricket. He actually gets really good shape on his arm-ball towards the slips, and that's where he can get you - he challenges the outside edge of the RHB. The fact that the pitch has a bit of bite in it probably won't really be a factor for him though because even when he does toss up a genuine off break it doesn't really turn it much at all.

Re Samuels's & Williamsons's actions; I'd actually say the latter's is worse on the whole. Samuels's standard offie looks merely faintly dodgy & he only really gets blatant with his quicker one (which is Lockesque in it's hiedeousness) but Williamson's standard MO is on a par with Johan Botha.

On Vettori, he actually had one or two bite and turn yesterday, but given the predonderence of the sinister in the Windies' top order he wasn't challenging the edge. One of the comms (might've been Faz, but couldn't swear) said he thought Dan's orthodox rectitude counted against him on pitches like this. Because his seam is so beautifully presented he doesn't get the natural variations off the deck like Narine, Samuels & Williamson do with their more scrambled efforts.

Vettori does look a bit podgy tho, which is never a good thing in a player approaching his mid-30s who's had a bit of a break. Suggests one hunger has been replaced with a more literal one.

 

[Flem274*]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Vettori is one of the best six batsmen in the country and since his bowling has dropped away from average to innocuous, he has to bat in the top six to make the team imo.

Now watch him take 7 for sfa in the second innings.

 

[Howsie]

How did the bowlers look last night? I read Howsie's awesome jinx, but that's all I know.

Awesome jinx? The old **** did exactly what I thought he'd do, get smacked around before picking up a couple of cheap and meaningless wickets. He's odds on now to finish with 3/120 where people will look back on this game in a month or two and say he was solid on a flat deck. It happens every bloody time with him.

 

[Howsie]

I am not going to comment on him without the benefit of seeing him. But in the SA series he looked poor. But then I partly put that down to the batting making him look that way.

you need a spinner in your team and he is still the best we have - unless this new joker from ND that Howsie is on about turns out to be the goods we have to stick by him until another spinner comes along.

Even if we find someone who averages 30 in FC cricket we could take them in - but they all average 40 last time I checked.

 

[Mike5181]

Awesome jinx? The old **** did exactly what I thought he'd do, get smacked around before picking up a couple of cheap and meaningless wickets. He's odds on now to finish with 3/120 where people will look back on this game in a month or two and say he was solid on a flat deck. It happens every bloody time with him.

What's up with his run up btw? He's starts so wide now.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Awesome jinx? The old **** did exactly what I thought he'd do, get smacked around before picking up a couple of cheap and meaningless wickets. He's odds on now to finish with 3/120 where people will look back on this game in a month or two and say he was solid on a flat deck. It happens every bloody time with him.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but it's a massive stretch to call two of the best three Windies batsmen's wickets "meaningless".

Martin's ball to Chanders was the ball of the innings so far.

 

[Prince EWS]

Re Samuels's & Williamsons's actions; I'd actually say the latter's is worse on the whole. Samuels's standard offie looks merely faintly dodgy & he only really gets blatant with his quicker one (which is Lockesque in it's hiedeousness) but Williamson's standard MO is on a par with Johan Botha.

Yeah, I completely agree; Williamson's action is definitely worse. I find Samuels's chucking more annoying though because he does it to create the most anti-cricket outcome possible. Lots of spinners bend the elbow a tad to get more turn, more bounce or turn the ball the other way which, while it detracts from the aesthetics of their action and the purity of the display, adds to the aesthetics of the cricket after they've let the ball go. Samuels's throwing is designed to create the dartiest darts that were ever darted, which is beyond annoying; he cheats in order to play anti-cricket.

 

[Flem274*]

Howsie hates all seamers over 30 and under 140kph who aren't from ND.

But yeah if Martin returns to what he was before last season he should go. He bowled terribad in Zimbabwe though before coming right in Australia with a bang, so there is hope.

 

[Howsie]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but it's a massive stretch to call two of the best three Windies batsmen's wickets "meaningless".

Martin's ball to Chanders was the ball of the innings so far.

Yep, but by the time he picked up those two wickets the horse had already bolted.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

OK kids, the moral of the story is that if Chris Gayle is whipping your arse just give up and don't even try, because the West Indies definitely won't collapse and give the opposition a second chance from a strong position. Ever.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yep, but by the time he picked up those two wickets the horse had already bolted.

Did Bracewell do anything to ensure the horse remained in its stable?

I'll admit Martin didn't bowl well at all. But honestly, can we not remember he was our best bowler in the SA series last summer? He bowls averagely for one period, and he's done again. That sort of knee jerk will keep plenty of physicians in work.

Wow, Vettori's non-minnow numbers are awful. But not surprising. I think it's up to Dan to call it quits, and he's the sort of guy who would if he's dragging the chain. No one is going to do it for him, there'd be a mutiny against anyone who tried.

 

[Mike5181]

Did Bracewell do anything to ensure the horse remained in its stable?

I'll admit Martin didn't bowl well at all. But honestly, can we not remember he was our best bowler in the SA series last summer? He bowls averagely for one period, and he's done again. That sort of knee jerk will keep plenty of physicians in work.

Wow, Vettori's non-minnow numbers are awful. But not surprising. I think it's up to Dan to call it quits, and he's the sort of guy who would if he's dragging the chain. No one is going to do it for him, there'd be a mutiny against anyone who tried.

Gillespie was comfortably our best bowler in the SA series. Bracewell had better figures as well.

 

[Howsie]

Did Bracewell do anything to ensure the horse remained in its stable?

I'll admit Martin didn't bowl well at all. But honestly, can we not remember he was our best bowler in the SA series last summer? He bowls averagely for one period, and he's done again. That sort of knee jerk will keep plenty of physicians in work.

Wow, Vettori's non-minnow numbers are awful. But not surprising. I think it's up to Dan to call it quits, and he's the sort of guy who would if he's dragging the chain. No one is going to do it for him, there'd be a mutiny against anyone who tried.

Martin averaged over 40 with the ball that series, both Gillespie and Bracewell were better imo.

 

[Raghav]

Martin was never a really threatening bowler who has ripped the opposition's batsman on a consistent basis.. His statistics (barring minnows) say he is not doing great or worse in the last 2 yrs on comparison to his overall stats.

true.. we didn't see a great performance from him yesterday, but however he he did work well to get the angle to these lefties. The delivery that he got Chanderpaul out is a beauty...

His last two year record:

all these stats exclude minnow teams (Ban and Zim)

Bowl Avg:
last two years: 32.52
Career: 33.78

SR
last two yrs: 62.1
Career : 60.1

 

[Prince EWS]

The problem with excluding minnows for Martin is the fact that he was actually really bad in Zimbabwe. I don't really believe that if he'd been playing someone else then he'd have fared any better.

 

[Flem274*]

The problem wth that analysis is it doesn't take into account Martin's various quirks. Started off as destructive at home or in South Africa and innocuous everywhere else, to an average to poor 3/100 style bowler with the odd wtf where did that come from like in India, to Hughes c Guptill b Martin last season.

 

[Hurricane]

I'm with Steve - can we not start a bandwagon against Martin after 1 inning. The knives always seem to come out for him. He has been a sensational servant for NZ.

 

[Howsie]

I'm with Steve - can we not start a bandwagon against Martin after 1 inning. The knives always seem to come out for him. He has been a sensational servant for NZ.

lol, we are a joke. Chris Martin, 37 soon to be 38 year old Chris Martin making a comeback to the one day team, what's the point? If the decrepit old **** can't handle a more than adequate lead up (at least he get's a warm up game) he should be put down. Shouldn't even be there to begin with anyway.

On green seamers.... He had that one good over against South Africa and then proceeded to send down rubbish you'd expect from a 37 year old fast bowler. Can't bat, can't field and is going to be a complete non factor on these pitches.

I've wanted him gooooone for a long time tbf

But he's 37, of course the knives will come out if he has a few poor tests, at that age you can't afford to have 4-5 bad games in a row.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

I think it's time for another "Martin needs to retire" thread.